Blackstar Emulated Out Question

asimmd

Hi All As you probably know my Blackstar ID30 is a transistor amp,and the Emulated Out has speaker emulation which can not be turned off. I have Redwirez IR's which I would like to use,so can I disconnect the speaker and connect a cable from the speaker out jack to the Input of my Interface? Thanks Alan

thecolourbox

I wouldn't if i were you! Others know better than me but just in case youre tempted to try it in the meantime!!!

ICBM

There's not much risk if you start with the amp's master volume at zero and just increase it slowly until you get some signal through. It may be very sensitive though, so be careful. It helps if you're trying to get a clean sound, since any distortion in the input of the interface won't be masked by distortion from the amp. As long as you don't overdrive the interface, you can't do it any harm. (And unlikely even if you do, but don't - it will sound awful anyway.)

A bigger problem is likely to be that the signal to noise ratio will be fairly poor, even with a fairly clean sound - probably a bit hissy.

asimmd

Thanks ICBM You don't sound very confident that it will be successful even if no damage will be sustained. I wonder if it's worth bothering,looks like a valve amp is the only way to find the sort of sound I am looking for. Alan

ICBM

It will work, it just probably isn't the best way. But if you have a cable it's worth trying .

I doubt a valve amp is going to give you what you want either, to be honest - direct recording is not what they're best at. If you're really going to use it only for recording and not as a 'live' amp, even at home, you'd be better off with a dedicated recording preamp most likely.

Fortheloveofguitar

I recorded my last solo e.p using my Cornford MK50 unmiked and straight to the desk using speaker impulses and it sounded awesome.

My producer commented that the tone was outstanding and we couldn't hear any difference between that setup and when we recorded miked up a year previous to that on a band project.

I did the same with my carvin legacy and that sounded fantastic too.

asimmd

I will take the back off tomorrow and see what's there,what cable do I need? What dedicated recording preamps are there,would appreciate some names to look at.

goldtop

Fortheloveofguitar said:

I recorded my last solo e.p using my Cornford MK50 unmiked and straight to the desk using speaker impulses and it sounded awesome.

My producer commented that the tone was outstanding and we couldn't hear any difference between that setup and when we recorded miked up a year previous to that on a band project.

I did the same with my carvin legacy and that sounded fantastic too.

I agree. I've had a few valve preamps with recording outs and they can sound good but never as rewarding as a full valve amp with power stage compression and distortion.

The H&K TubeMeister 36 show demo - - gives a good example of how an emulated out can be captured and then tweaked to great effect with EQ and impulse.

rpr

As an experiment try plugging your guitar straight into the interface and putting it thru a VST amp sim- there's lots of free ones available. It gives you more chance to shape the guitar sound to the track, which may change as the track evolves.  It also gives you the option of re-amping the dry guitar sound later on.

Heres a link to some free amp sim VSTs- http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?plug-ins=Guitar/Amp

Free Amp 3 is pretty versatile--

asimmd

Thanks for the replies,the H&K video is very good. I should have said I use a Mac,so the VST's are no use to me. I have lot's of amp sim's but I am not impressed with them. I have a PreAmp it' the Laney Ironheart Studio. As I play mainly clean sounds I wonder if this Laney can do clean tone well. Alan

ecc83

asimmd said:

I will take the back off tomorrow and see what's there,what cable do I need? What dedicated recording preamps are there,would appreciate some names to look at.

I would advise against that. The ID 15 and 30 combos do not provide a speaker output jack and I would assume that this is because the power amplifiers are not protected to the same extent as the 60 and 100watt amps which of course do provide speaker jacks. They are primarily "practice" amps not designed for knock about stage work IMHO.

Then the PA is a class D switching design and although it has been tested to satisfy all the EM regulations they might well still put out enough switching noise to bother an AI input. Also 30W into 4Ohms is over 30volts peak to peak, that could blow input protection diodes and not everything HAS protection diodes! In general I do not advise connecting PA outs to inputs unless properly loaded and attenuated. The latter will also cover the noise issue that ICBM raised.

According to the Blackstar handbook the emulated output can be changed in software to deliver "left processed, right dry" The right output will be available from the ring connection of a stereo jack lead.

As ever, always best to talk to the organ grinder!

Dave.

ICBM

^ Correct . I am only the monkey in this case! And extrapolating from what I know of the 60-watter... perhaps not entirely correctly.

If you have the Laney preamp, why not just try it?!

asimmd

Thanks ecc83 for the warning,I won't bother trying anything with the Blackstar. ICBM,I don't have a Laney Studio,I came across it by accident tonight,just wondering if it will do what I want,it is all valve,built in interface via USB and a does not have to be connected to a speaker.

ThePrettyDamned

I still reckon you should try a tech 21 Liverpool. It's designed to emulate voxy sort of sounds in a Di package.

A valve amp won't help - as far as I know, you don't really get ac30 type amps with emulated out anyway, and even if you used a box to do it, it's a very large, expensive solution to a problem that probably won't give better results.

asimmd

Thanks TPD,not exactly what i wanted to hear but i know you are only being truthful,and i was looking forward to a new toy.

It does not have to be a Voxy sound,i don't think the Two Rock or Mesa amps will do a voxy sound,having said that neither does the Blackstar,i get my sound with the Blackstar by using one of Logics EQ's on the track while i am recording.

I have it in my head that the expensive amps are overall better sound wise,after all why would anyone pay £2500+ for an amp if a £300 one would do.

I will take your advice and look to youtube for demo's of the tech21 pedal,and thanks for your patience you must be getting very impatient with al my questions.

Alan

ICBM

asimmd said:

I have it in my head that the expensive amps are overall better sound wise,after all why would anyone pay £2500+ for an amp if a £300 one would do.

For the same reason that some people will pay £100 for a bottle of wine when a £5 one will do. Part of the reason for both these things is the *expectation* that the more expensive one *must* be better.

I'm not saying that a £2,500 amp won't sound better than a £300 amp - or that a £100 bottle of wine might not taste nicer than a £5 one - but you'd be surprised how little genuine difference there can be, especially when you're not using them for their primary application which is to make a loud sound in a room in a live band context.

Some very famous recordings have been made with very cheap gear, more than you might imagine.

There's a demo somewhere here of a clean-ish tone recorded with a Joyo pedal (I think, might have been the Tech21 original version) it sounds fantastic, and I seriously doubt anyone would be able to tell for sure it was not a valve amp, in a mix at least.

ThePrettyDamned

asimmd;183217" said:

Thanks TPD,not exactly what i wanted to hear but i know you are only being truthful,and i was looking forward to a new toy.

It does not have to be a Voxy sound,i don't think the Two Rock or Mesa amps will do a voxy sound,having said that neither does the Blackstar,i get my sound with the Blackstar by using one of Logics EQ's on the track while i am recording.

I have it in my head that the expensive amps are overall better sound wise,after all why would anyone pay £2500+ for an amp if a £300 one would do.

I will take your advice and look to youtube for demo's of the tech21 pedal,and thanks for your patience you must be getting very impatient with al my questions.

Alan

It's more about the right tool for the job.

Hank Marvin is known for his ac30 clean tone. Getting a two rock will sound great for a standard fender clean tone, but you'll need to play out loud, not with headphones, and most emulated boxes will make it sound... Well, probably just like a tech 21.

They do a fender voiced one, if that's your bag, but unless you're planning on using the speaker (and truthfully, at a reasonable volume, though not necessarily *loud*) I'd say a dedicated box for the job is better.

The kemper or axe fx ii might give you the best of both - you get to empty your wallet on a treat (and why not?) plus they are excellent for DI recording.

ThePrettyDamned

Just for thought, I've been recording with my bandit recently and been getting some great results double tracking. But even with the volume not even close to 1 out of 10, I have to wait for the house to be empty because it's... Well, loud. Loud enough to record with is quite high house volume.

asimmd

Thanks TPD,i guess there are lot's of different combinations but only one will be the "Right"one,it's just finding it.

When i was younger and had no money, like everyone else, i wanted a Mesa Boogie or something equally

as expensive,now i can afford one it seems there is no point.

I did consider the Kemper,but for the price and the sounds i would use it seemed like overkill.

If i could turn off the Sapeaker Emulation on the Blackstar and use my Redwirez Vox IR's then i think

i would be sorted.

I have emailed Blackstar to ask if it can be done,i await their reply.

The Laney Ironman Studio with Redwirez Vox IR's might fit the bill,until i read it was aimed at Metal

Sounds,Mmmmmmm,not me.

ecc83

ICBM said:

^ Correct . I am only the monkey in this case! And extrapolating from what I know of the 60-watter... perhaps not entirely correctly.

If you have the Laney preamp, why not just try it?!

No! No! I did not mean you IC!

I was referring to myself! I did not get that involved during my short, second term at B's with the IDs to any great extent.

I simply took the view that most small, low power sstate G amps do not provide a speaker jack because people would fork 'em!

I have not seriously abused the 15/30 amps. I HAVE done unspeakable things to the 60/100 PAs and they lived.

Dave.

ThePrettyDamned

asimmd;183255" said:

Thanks TPD,i guess there are lot's of different combinations but only one will be the "Right"one,it's just finding it.

When i was younger and had no money, like everyone else, i wanted a Mesa Boogie or something equallyas expensive,now i can afford one it seems there is no point.

I did consider the Kemper,but for the price and the sounds i would use it seemed like overkill.

If i could turn off the Sapeaker Emulation on the Blackstar and use my Redwirez Vox IR's then i thinki would be sorted.I have emailed Blackstar to ask if it can be done,i await their reply.

The Laney Ironman Studio with Redwirez Vox IR's might fit the bill,until i read it was aimed at MetalSounds,Mmmmmmm,not me.

I'm not sure it would be overkill.

You have some wonderful guitars, and you want to hear them at their best, considering all circumstances. I'd say a kemper (plus a professionally modeled set of amps) would probably suit you well. You'd get great tone through pa speakers if you did want to go loud, but you can use it straight to a desk or with headphones, and it sounds amazing when used right.