Signing at Little Mix concert

eSully

Fully appreciate where you're coming from @bodhi - And I'd certainly be very weary of taking any single article as the full story in a situation but that report certainly reads like the promoter repeated bent over backwards to accommodate this woman and somehow is still getting sued!

fields5069

If I'm blind, do I get an audio description of the visuals?

"Shanice has just whipped her skirt off. Oooh, her puppy fat's all gone, bless her". etc.

Panama_Jack666

fields5069 said:

If I'm blind, do I get an audio description of the visuals?

"Shanice has just whipped her skirt off. Oooh, her puppy fat's all gone, bless her". etc.

You can go to screenings at the cinema that are like that...

I wonder if a theatre has ever done that for a performance. I doubt it would go down very well with the other punters if someone was sat there describing every facet and detail of Swan Lake to a visually impaired guest. 

english_bob

In isolation it does seem pretty unreasonable, but I can see how it's about achieving something larger.

Deaf mum probably doesn't even like Little Mix, and when she went to the concert she didn't even know that she wanted what she's now suing for not getting, but I can see her point- with all the other stuff that needs to be arranged for a tour of that size, would it really bankrupt the organizers to provide a BSL interpreter for the entire bill at each show?

Fine, there are a million things to organize as part of a big tour, and at the planning stage I can understand how nobody thought about BSL interpreters. It seems deaf mum asked nicely initially though, and gave the promoter ample opportunity to make a fairly small accommodation without resorting to legal action, they just couldn't be arsed until the solicitors got involved.

All that said, I see @crunchman's point- it's one thing for an arena show that will generate a tidy profit to do this, but quite another for a covers band in a pub, playing for beer money. Or would it be the landlord's job to provide the interpreter? If it was, would the extra cost be enough for him to decide not to bother booking bands any more?

FazTheWookie

It's not uncommon for operas in a foreign language to be performed with scrolling "super-titles" on a screen at the top of the stage.

digitalscream

I think her over-the-top argument about the support acts speaks volumes...

"We only got access to the last act. If you went to a film can you imagine only getting access to the last 20 minutes?"

No, that's not an equivalent proposition at all. While we'd all like to think that support acts are a big part of the show, the reality is that missing them is more like missing the trailers at the cinema.

Ravenous

Put those horns away guys - legal proceedings have been started, but haven't been to court yet. Presumably a court will decide what "reasonable arrangements" are.

I doubt typical pub gigs will now be forced to have a sign language interpreter at every musical soiree!

And as for cinemas - come on this is the 21st century.  This can be handled by a special screening with subtitles for the deaf, or for the blind a hearing loop & earpieces arrangement at regular screenings.  There isn't someone at the front with a megaphone shouting a description of the scenes.

BRISTOL86

digitalscream said:

I think her over-the-top argument about the support acts speaks volumes...

"We only got access to the last act. If you went to a film can you imagine only getting access to the last 20 minutes?"

No, that's not an equivalent proposition at all. While we'd all like to think that support acts are a big part of the show, the reality is that missing them is more like missing the trailers at the cinema.

I had the exact same thought! ‘The last act’ - you mean the one that was 90% of the show?! How is that equivalent to the last 20 minutes of a film?! 

prowla

I think if they had to provide an interpreter then it should've been for the whole event which was paid for.

(The last gig I went to, the support acts were good, Cats In Space, and Europe!)

BRISTOL86

prowla said:

I think if they had to provide an interpreter then it should've been for the whole event which was paid for.

(The last gig I went to, the support acts were good, Cats In Space, and Europe!)

I agree that it was a poor oversight but to sue over it, really?!

maltingsaudio

digitalscream said:

I think her over-the-top argument about the support acts speaks volumes...

"We only got access to the last act. If you went to a film can you imagine only getting access to the last 20 minutes?"

No, that's not an equivalent proposition at all. While we'd all like to think that support acts are a big part of the show, the reality is that missing them is more like missing the trailers at the cinema.

Totally disagree,

1 being a support on a large show is vital to the growth of an up and coming band.
2 She booked to see the show. Now here is an argument but in my mind she booked to see however many hours of entertainment the Little Mix show entailed, therefor could reasonably expect the supports to be signed, not just the main. The promoter I expect didn't think it through.

JAYJO

 Thought there had been some singing at a Little Mix concert there for minute.      

bodhi

english_bob said:

In isolation it does seem pretty unreasonable, but I can see how it's about achieving something larger.

It seems deaf mum asked nicely initially though, and gave the promoter ample opportunity to make a fairly small accommodation without resorting to legal action, they just couldn't be arsed until the solicitors got involved.

All that said, I see @crunchman's point- it's one thing for an arena show that will generate a tidy profit to do this, but quite another for a covers band in a pub, playing for beer money. Or would it be the landlord's job to provide the interpreter? If it was, would the extra cost be enough for him to decide not to bother booking bands any more?

Wisdom.

I totally get both sides of the argument.  I really do.

It's a difficult one.

english_bob

BRISTOL86 said:

I agree that it was a poor oversight but to sue over it, really?!

I think it depends on whether you see this as an isolated incident, or a potential precedent for disability rights.

Yes, it's probably unfair that this particular promoter is the one getting dragged through the courts (although the article does kinda make it sound like they brought it on themselves), but if it means that future tour promoters know to do a proper job of making arrangements for disabled people, it's a move in the right direction. 

In her defence, I don't think it's fair to expect a deaf middle aged woman to have as good an understanding of what happens at pop concerts as a professional promoter. Maybe she didn't know there would be support acts, but the promoter did, and it takes a special sort of... something (incompetence? spite? parsimoniousness?) to assume that a paying customer who's prepared to go to court to get a BSL interpreter only wants them for the headliner.

BRISTOL86

english_bob said:

BRISTOL86 said:

I agree that it was a poor oversight but to sue over it, really?!

I think it depends on whether you see this as an isolated incident, or a potential precedent for disability rights.

Yes, it's probably unfair that this particular promoter is the one getting dragged through the courts (although the article does kinda make it sound like they brought it on themselves), but if it means that future tour promoters know to do a proper job of making arrangements for disabled people, it's a move in the right direction. 

In her defence, I don't think it's fair to expect a deaf middle aged woman to have as good an understanding of what happens at pop concerts as a professional promoter. Maybe she didn't know there would be support acts, but the promoter did, and it takes a special sort of... something (incompetence? spite? parsimoniousness?) to assume that a paying customer who's prepared to go to court to get a BSL interpreter only wants them for the headliner.

Yep all fair points and I appreciate the issue is more complex than it appears. 

Phil_aka_Pip

How much BSL do you need to "interpret" uh-huh, get down baby, and you know what I'm sayin'?

mikeyrob73

just a small sample of Littlemix's amazing lyrics 

i only know this one due to having 2 girls aged 8 and 10 who listen to this song pretty much every morning (honest) 

The lyric " you make rain but i make it shower" WTF does that even mean ? 

Hold up, no you didn't bow, bow
I ain't the chick to walk behind you around town
Just cause you're packin', packin', whoop, down south
That don't mean I'm ever gonna take it laying down, baby
Oh I'm a machine when I do it
I'll be catching fire, gasoline when I do it
Just cause you're packin', packin', whoop, down south
That don't mean I'm ever gonna take it laying down

Baby, you're the man
But I got the, I got the, I got the power
You make rain
But I'll make it, I'll make it, I'll make it shower
You should know, I'm the one who's in control
I'll let you come take the wheel, long as you don't forget

Who got the power?
I got the, I got the power
I got the, I got the power
I got the, I got the power
Hold up!

My turn
I make this look easy

richardhomer

I can think of few environments where hearing impairment might be considered an advantage, other than a Little Mix concert....

LuttiS

mikeyrob73 said:

Just cause you're packin', packin', whoop, down south
That don't mean I'm ever gonna take it laying down, baby
Oh I'm a machine when I do it
I'll be catching fire, gasoline when I do it
Just cause you're packin', packin', whoop, down south
That don't mean I'm ever gonna take it laying down

Baby, you're the man
etc..

How the fuck is that suitable for young children? 

I was in Smyths (the toy store) the other day and the song being played was about ripping off a bitches bra and basically raping her...  or something like that..

This is popular music. Woo. 

munckee

LuttiS said:

mikeyrob73 said:

Just cause you're packin', packin', whoop, down south
That don't mean I'm ever gonna take it laying down, baby
Oh I'm a machine when I do it
I'll be catching fire, gasoline when I do it
Just cause you're packin', packin', whoop, down south
That don't mean I'm ever gonna take it laying down

Baby, you're the man
etc..

How the fuck is that suitable for young children? 

I was in Smyths (the toy store) the other day and the song being played was about ripping off a bitches bra and basically raping her...  or something like that..

This is popular music. Woo. 

I have a 12 year old daughter, last thing I want her aspiring to is a group of young 'ladies' like little mix with their ongoing dress like a cheap prostitute competition.  Let alone their lyrics.

Although I was fairly stunned when I collected her from school last week and she was standing with a boy and commented "don't worry dad he has come out as gay" I said okay, she said "yeah he was bi for years"

for years, he's 12 now??