BEWARE Spider Cases review - Flightcase Warehouse - Nitro damage

SimonC

Don’t agree with that at all. If it’s advertised as a Les Paul case, it should be suitable for a Les Paul regardless of the cost.
The materials don’t have to be expensive, just non reactive.

bodhi

Although there is some truth to the director's response, it doesn't do Flightcase Warehouse any favours.

It certainly comes across as snotty enough that I would steer clear of them.

Whitecat

SimonC said:

Don’t agree with that at all. If it’s advertised as a Les Paul case, it should be suitable for a Les Paul regardless of the cost.
The materials don’t have to be expensive, just non reactive.

Yup. Couldn’t have a more obvious/literal definition of “not fit for purpose.”

John_A

On a more positive note, the refund of the case price would probably be enough to get that repaired, it's a relatively minor repair, that a drop fill and a bit wet n dry should sort out.  Then remove the tab from the case as that seems the only bit that's causing damage

JezWynd

nibs said:

No sympathy for the director here- he cares nothing about the damage to my guitar - most people I know who play store their guitars in a hardcase and I check my guitars for setup / tuning every few months or so - I have a small collection and usually play SG for 6 months or so and swap over to LP so no archival storage here just in hardcase until I change over to keep them safe - the fact that the director refused to pay for return cost and doubted the case tab causing the reaction to the finish - when it is obvious from photos - also the hard case is supposed to protect the guitar not damage it...

Nitro is a notoriously reactive finish. Personally, I wouldn't store a nitro guitar for 6 months without inspecting it every now and then. Have you considered the possibility that the nitro finish is defective? Or that the temperature of the storage room was a factor? If you take it to arbitration I have no doubt that the other side would raise these possibilites.

But you are right - them denying that the tab caused the damage is a bit daft and doesn't do them any favours.

nibs

I'm waiting on quote from some luthiers - but I think it would be quite a lot more than £50 to repair the damage to finish -depending on quality of repair - I've been told that there will always be a visible mark there unless the whole neck is stripped back and refinished and even then the colour match up would need to be correct.

nibs

Whitecat said:

SimonC said:

Don’t agree with that at all. If it’s advertised as a Les Paul case, it should be suitable for a Les Paul regardless of the cost.
The materials don’t have to be expensive, just non reactive.

Yup. Couldn’t have a more obvious/literal definition of “not fit for purpose.”

Exactly “not fit for purpose.”

Sesh

I can hear their lawyers now, "the case was designed for a Les Paul style guitar, not an actual Les Paul."

I hope it gets fixed alright.

thermionic

They should just change the description to "Epiphone Les Paul Case".

grungebob

well thats one company I'll be avoiding then.  Really they do themselves no favours as its clear they dont care. I might not know what case to buy when my friends ask me but I know what case NOT to buy when they do.

rlw

I'm going to be a bit Devil's advocate here.

The case is advertised as being a Les Paul case, suitable for a Les Paul guitar.  It holds the guitar firmly and protects it from handling damage.

Les Paul guitars come in nitro, poly and even metal finishes. As we know, nitro finishes are funny things.  Nowhere does Flight Case Warehouse say it's safe for nitro finishes.

The guitar fits in the case well.  The case works.  Ergo, it is fit or purpose.

It is unfortunate that the guitar has been marked by the case but, since many other similar guitars have not been marked by similar cases, the fault would seem to lie with the guitar.  I would even go so far as to say that the guitar was not fit for purpose since it could not be stored safely without being damaged.

I think any sort of court case would be a complete waste of time.  The supplier has offered to refund the price of the case.  End of.

Additionally, how old is the guitar?  If it's very recent, had the finish hardened properly?   Has the storage room varied in temperature a lot?  Gibson do allude to the fragility of the finish in their paperwork somewhere.

Funnily enough, I kept two Gibson Les Pauls in one of these cases and neither was marked.   I have since bought a further two and both of these have been marked by standing them on an expensive stand, allegedly extremely unlikely to do damage to a nitro finish, but not guaranteed.

I think it's a bit caveat emptor, a bit unlucky and a bit unfortunate on the OP's part.

rlw

Whitecat said:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/claim-compensation-if-an-item-or-product-causes-damage/

IMO you have a claim for negligence. Contact your local CAB for advice...

Negligence?  So Flight Case Warehouse were aware of the potential issues but still sold the OP a case.  Now prove it.

Whitecat

rlw said:

Whitecat said:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/claim-compensation-if-an-item-or-product-causes-damage/

IMO you have a claim for negligence. Contact your local CAB for advice...

Negligence?  So Flight Case Warehouse were aware of the potential issues but still sold the OP a case.  Now prove it.

https://www.out-law.com/topics/commercial/supply-of-goods-and-services/product-liability-under-the-consumer-protection-act/

https://www.out-law.com/en/topics/commercial/supply-of-goods-and-services/product-liability-for-negligence/

They don't need to be "aware." Ignorance is not an excuse. Failure to test and failure to research are liabilities.

This all stems from the fact that it's advertised as a Les Paul case. 100% of Gibson Les Pauls ever made could have this problem in this case. 

If they removed those words from the marketing they might just get away with it. Even better, they could just write a warning saying some components may not be nitro safe. Then they are excused.

NB - this is civil, not criminal negligence we're talking about.

Johnnyseven

Is it advertised as specifically being a case for a Gibson Les Paul though?

grungebob

Just out of curiosity but can any guitar not built by Gibson be called a Les Paul guitar, if not and this is advertised as a case for a Les Paul guitar than failure to test for compatibility of materials is surely negligence on the manufacturer?

Whitecat

grungebob said:

Just out of curiosity but can any guitar not built by Gibson be called a Les Paul guitar, if not and this is advertised as a case for a Les Paul guitar than failure to test for compatibility of materials is surely negligence on the manufacturer?

This is my opinion. There are Gibson Les Pauls and there are Epiphone Les Pauls - all Gibson Les Pauls are nitro, most Epiphones are not but there have been a handful of limited editions that are.

nibs

SimonC said:

Don’t agree with that at all. If it’s advertised as a Les Paul case, it should be suitable for a Les Paul regardless of the cost.
The materials don’t have to be expensive, just non reactive.

I agree exactly - only Gibson and Epiphone are allowed to be called 'Les Paul' - so misleading too...

Basically I've been sold a case to protect my Les Paul and the case has directly damaged the finish of my guitar due to the materials used in the case -  it's that simple really - a guitar case is mean't to protect my guitar not damage it....

Just imagine if TKL who make Gibson cases supplied Gibson with hardcases to protect their beautifully crafted guitars only to find that they have caused damage to the guitar finishes - there is no way TKL would get away with it - Gibson would seek compensation all the way- obviously...

Three-ColourSunburst

I wonder if any nitro finished Les Paul owners ever sued Gibson when their official Gibson cases caused damage to the finish? I understand that Gibson moved away from using a bright red plush because white nitro finishes were been left a bright pink! Lots of other issues seem to be associated with nitro finishes in general, in relation to cases, stands, straps and even the players hands. Give me a nice durable poly finish any day!

Three-ColourSunburst

nibs said:

Just imagine if TKL who make Gibson cases supplied Gibson with hardcases to protect their beautifully crafted guitars only to find that they have caused damage to the guitar finishes - there is no way TKL would get away with it - Gibson would seek compensation all the way- obviously...

If you search the forums there are loads of reports of the lining of genuine Gibson cases causing damage to the finish of their nitro finished guitars.

Whitecat

I would absolutely pursue a warranty claim if a Gibson I had bought new was being damaged by its own case. 

White finishes turn pinkish/yellow under mild burns no matter what is in contact with them though... the colour of the case lining is probably coincidental.