Changing careers - Any advice?

Musicman20

Spent years training in law.

Degree - Law School - Training Contract - Finally working.

Quite expensive and intense.

I was lucky to get a Training Contract fairly quickly.

But, I just don't feel I am in the right career. It's very VERY stressful, intense, formal, dull and you basically just sit at a PC most the time. The pay is nothing like what people expect. A legal role is also not a safe role nowadays. We have poor perks and I've seen this happen at many firms over the years.

I am trying my hardest to stick at it, but I'm becoming more unhappy and finding myself feeling anxious all the time.  Especially when people I know landed jobs they really enjoy, with better pay, with much less stress!

Has anyone else left a big career for another type of career, and how do you do it?!

Any advice?!

Thanks

thomasross20

I expect a lot of people feel the same about their job.

Depends what you want to do instead?

TheBigDipper

If you know what you'd like to do instead, just do it now. It will never get any easier and the further up the greasy pole you go the harder it will be to change because you'll be earning (and spending) more. Curious - are you in high street law or corporate law? 

Freebird

I always thought law was a good grounding for other careers? Almost everything we do commercially involves various laws of one kind or other.

richh

There are a few guys who trained in law and then went other routes, such as Bob Mortimer & Derren Brown.  They didn't do too badly for themselves!

I always assumed the money would be very good for somebody in a law career, but can't say that it ever sounded particularly exciting TBH.

Good luck whatever you do decide to do though!

Phil_aka_Pip

I always thought law was hard study followed by unpaid work (or even paying to work) then a pittance and finally untold riches when you get to the higher echelons. Maybe you should grit your teeth and wait for the untold riches.

VimFuego

do you have an idea of what you want to change to?

I left my last corporate job 10 1/2 years ago, I was an accountant in the home counties and am now a self employed gardener (plus we do a few other things as well) in Devon. However, at the time we were debt and mortgage free, so the huge drop in income was easier to bear. We do have the occasional month where things get a bit tight, but so far for ordinary living expenses we haven't had to dip into savings. 
I am aware that things could change in the future (especially as I age, not sure how long I can keep doing this, I'm 48 now, so I reckon another 10 years) so I do have to have things in mind for the future. 

RaymondLin

That’s funny…coz. 

I did my LPC, was working in one of the really large firm for 5 and a half years until I left in mid 2016, I was in PI, large loss, Defendant.  Don’t think I’ll go back to law.  I am surprise I stuck it out for that long tbh.

My friend who has later got a TC and still working in the same firm was talking the other day how he is super stressed and always on 100% at the time because of the stress and he knows he can’t keep this up for long for his mental state sake.  He works in Commercial Estate/contracts.

 My sister too is a trained solicitor but had to leave due to a baby and when they didn’t want to take her back on part time, she decided to be a full time mum.  

 I found the academics of law is great, the theory and philosophy of it but the actual practice of it can give you an yeast infection.  It is not like the movies at all. 

Also I find that the larger the firm is, the more anal they are for everything.  I much prefer the smaller family firm I worked at before, much better holiday allowance, longer lunch (a hr 15 vs 1hr), flexible in terms of if you are late to work due to traffic, you just make it up later, there is give an take and nobody really took advantage because you are happy to do it as it doesn’t feel like there is an eye on  your back all the time and if you get your work done in the end of the day, and everything meets deadline, the partners are not concerned.  This firm has a card system to open the doors so every time you go through a door, they know it. If you so much leave 1 min early or 1 min late, do it more than a couple of times, your line manager will have a “little word” with you….I’ve seen it happen!  Not only you have to stress about your work, we also get dragged into team meetings where one of the finance people give a break down on the quarterly targets and billing and how you are expected to chase clients to pay etc.  They never teach you that in the LPC.   None of this has anything to do with the actual work, just stupid office politics that makes the working environment unbearable.

Cases hardly ever go to court because it is not cost effective, so the whole thing is a giant paperwork exercise.  Clients constantly trying to squeeze you out because people like Aviva or AXA tender out contracts and picks the firm from the panel that charges the least.  More and more cases goes to fix fee instead of hourly rate and to get your bonus you got to hit stupid targets.  Which means any days off your take from your annual leave allowance will make your WIP take a massive hit (if you are expected to do say 1400 units a month in chargeable time, and you take a 2 weeks off work, there is no way you can hit the target that month).  You have to pretty much do double time to hit your expected target and to get your bonus, you have to hit above your target…that’s not going to happen really…..You pretty much have to do 110% all year round in order to accumulate enough WIP in the bank so when you take annual leave, it doesn’t dip below 100% when you come back.   The whole thing meaning you are working overtime to stock  up for your annual leave.

The whole thing is not worth it unless you get to be a Partner in most firms and into a senior position.  Or do what one of my colleague has done, quit, started his own firm and be his own boss.

 

tone1

My Brother in Law found exactly the same as you OP.. Law Degree, Training ing rotation etc before he realised its not what he wanted to do..Fortunately a Law degree opens you up to lots of oportunities I'd expect...He went in the HR direction and is now Head of HR for a mining firm..

EricTheWeary

When I worked in Probation we had a lot of people with a background in the law, disillusioned or just unsuccessful. Not really many jobs there now but law is a good background for a lot of public sector and charity sector jobs - although many of them will be as boring as what you’ve got now. I work in social services now and a lot of it is based on understanding the relevant legislation and guidance. 

57Deluxe

Traffic Warden - lots of fresh air, get to meet lots of new people...

mellowsun

Some options to use your law outside legal practice:

Legal informatics - will need to learn some AI and programming 

Law publishing / digital services, e.g. LexisNexis etc

Advice and training - NGO sector, CAB, education, etc

Compliance - universities or financial sector

IP, patent law maybe?

Most professions these days involve sitting in front of a PC.

Or, if you value your sanity, in front of a Mac

stickyfiddle

What kind of law are you doing?

MrsF is a lawyer (corporate, banking & finance focusing on infrastructure projects). Tbh in the UK it's bloody hard work and unspectacular pay, especially once you account for all the hours worked.

That's one of the reasons we're in the UAE. We both work in the infrastructure sphere and there's far more interesting work doing that here, and the tax situation makes it far better than the UK in terms of value for money. It's not for everyone, but don't discount the idea of travelling somewhere else. Equally, don't be under the illusion that any office job is necessary better; sitting at a desk for long hours is a reality of a lot of jobs these days. 

Musicman20

RaymondLin said:

That’s funny…coz. 

I did my LPC, was working in one of the really large firm for 5 and a half years until I left in mid 2016, I was in PI, large loss, Defendant.  Don’t think I’ll go back to law.  I am surprise I stuck it out for that long tbh.

My friend who has later got a TC and still working in the same firm was talking the other day how he is super stressed and always on 100% at the time because of the stress and he knows he can’t keep this up for long for his mental state sake.  He works in Commercial Estate/contracts.

 My sister too is a trained solicitor but had to leave due to a baby and when they didn’t want to take her back on part time, she decided to be a full time mum.  

 I found the academics of law is great, the theory and philosophy of it but the actual practice of it can give you an yeast infection.  It is not like the movies at all. 

Also I find that the larger the firm is, the more anal they are for everything.  I much prefer the smaller family firm I worked at before, much better holiday allowance, longer lunch (a hr 15 vs 1hr), flexible in terms of if you are late to work due to traffic, you just make it up later, there is give an take and nobody really took advantage because you are happy to do it as it doesn’t feel like there is an eye on  your back all the time and if you get your work done in the end of the day, and everything meets deadline, the partners are not concerned.  This firm has a card system to open the doors so every time you go through a door, they know it. If you so much leave 1 min early or 1 min late, do it more than a couple of times, your line manager will have a “little word” with you….I’ve seen it happen!  Not only you have to stress about your work, we also get dragged into team meetings where one of the finance people give a break down on the quarterly targets and billing and how you are expected to chase clients to pay etc.  They never teach you that in the LPC.   None of this has anything to do with the actual work, just stupid office politics that makes the working environment unbearable.

Cases hardly ever go to court because it is not cost effective, so the whole thing is a giant paperwork exercise.  Clients constantly trying to squeeze you out because people like Aviva or AXA tender out contracts and picks the firm from the panel that charges the least.  More and more cases goes to fix fee instead of hourly rate and to get your bonus you got to hit stupid targets.  Which means any days off your take from your annual leave allowance will make your WIP take a massive hit (if you are expected to do say 1400 units a month in chargeable time, and you take a 2 weeks off work, there is no way you can hit the target that month).  You have to pretty much do double time to hit your expected target and to get your bonus, you have to hit above your target…that’s not going to happen really…..You pretty much have to do 110% all year round in order to accumulate enough WIP in the bank so when you take annual leave, it doesn’t dip below 100% when you come back.   The whole thing meaning you are working overtime to stock  up for your annual leave.

The whole thing is not worth it unless you get to be a Partner in most firms and into a senior position.  Or do what one of my colleague has done, quit, started his own firm and be his own boss.

 

You’ve hit it right on the head.

I trained at Irwin Mitchell, then went to a big regional firm, now at a smaller firm but it has changed dramatically in two years.

They have slowly taken away the benefits they used to give and the whole firm feels tense and moody. 

Im basically doing work that someone in a senior position would do and as you’d expect, I’m hitting problems daily I’ve never been taught or even advised about.

It’s clinical negligence. Interesting to a point, then you feel like the whole point of studying was a joke as it’s basically very boring complex admin, barely any actual law, with too many unnecessary formalities that are completely outdated. 

Musicman20

PS thanks all! Will reply and consider all your advice!

Grunfeld

This weekend I had a chance to thank the chap who changed my career -- or, as it turns out, totally changed the focus and direction of my career . He didn't know this because all he'd done, about eight years ago was appear in an interview one morning on Radio 4's Today program.
It was just a 5 minute piece on hypnosis in research. But that was exactly the moment I decided to move in that direction.

It wasn't planned but once I got the idea I knew I had to do it. 
So, @Musicman20 just keep your ears open.  You'll know it when you hear it.  PS, one of the hypnotherapists I trained with used to be a barrister but realised it wasn't for her any more -- much happier now. 

Lestratcaster

From age 16 I worked in a supermarket til 19, got a few office jobs til 23 but didn't want to be doing it forever. Then in the same year I lost my job at a local college I went to study music properly and came out with a degree 4 years later. Now running my own business standing on my own two feet. I think back to myself if I had never took the chance I probably would be changing jobs every 2 years out of boredom.

RaymondLin

Musicman20 said:

RaymondLin said:

That’s funny…coz. 

I did my LPC, was working in one of the really large firm for 5 and a half years until I left in mid 2016, I was in PI, large loss, Defendant.  Don’t think I’ll go back to law.  I am surprise I stuck it out for that long tbh.

My friend who has later got a TC and still working in the same firm was talking the other day how he is super stressed and always on 100% at the time because of the stress and he knows he can’t keep this up for long for his mental state sake.  He works in Commercial Estate/contracts.

 My sister too is a trained solicitor but had to leave due to a baby and when they didn’t want to take her back on part time, she decided to be a full time mum.  

 I found the academics of law is great, the theory and philosophy of it but the actual practice of it can give you an yeast infection.  It is not like the movies at all. 

Also I find that the larger the firm is, the more anal they are for everything.  I much prefer the smaller family firm I worked at before, much better holiday allowance, longer lunch (a hr 15 vs 1hr), flexible in terms of if you are late to work due to traffic, you just make it up later, there is give an take and nobody really took advantage because you are happy to do it as it doesn’t feel like there is an eye on  your back all the time and if you get your work done in the end of the day, and everything meets deadline, the partners are not concerned.  This firm has a card system to open the doors so every time you go through a door, they know it. If you so much leave 1 min early or 1 min late, do it more than a couple of times, your line manager will have a “little word” with you….I’ve seen it happen!  Not only you have to stress about your work, we also get dragged into team meetings where one of the finance people give a break down on the quarterly targets and billing and how you are expected to chase clients to pay etc.  They never teach you that in the LPC.   None of this has anything to do with the actual work, just stupid office politics that makes the working environment unbearable.

Cases hardly ever go to court because it is not cost effective, so the whole thing is a giant paperwork exercise.  Clients constantly trying to squeeze you out because people like Aviva or AXA tender out contracts and picks the firm from the panel that charges the least.  More and more cases goes to fix fee instead of hourly rate and to get your bonus you got to hit stupid targets.  Which means any days off your take from your annual leave allowance will make your WIP take a massive hit (if you are expected to do say 1400 units a month in chargeable time, and you take a 2 weeks off work, there is no way you can hit the target that month).  You have to pretty much do double time to hit your expected target and to get your bonus, you have to hit above your target…that’s not going to happen really…..You pretty much have to do 110% all year round in order to accumulate enough WIP in the bank so when you take annual leave, it doesn’t dip below 100% when you come back.   The whole thing meaning you are working overtime to stock  up for your annual leave.

The whole thing is not worth it unless you get to be a Partner in most firms and into a senior position.  Or do what one of my colleague has done, quit, started his own firm and be his own boss.

 

You’ve hit it right on the head.

I trained at Irwin Mitchell, then went to a big regional firm, now at a smaller firm but it has changed dramatically in two years.

They have slowly taken away the benefits they used to give and the whole firm feels tense and moody. 

Im basically doing work that someone in a senior position would do and as you’d expect, I’m hitting problems daily I’ve never been taught or even advised about.

It’s clinical negligence. Interesting to a point, then you feel like the whole point of studying was a joke as it’s basically very boring complex admin, barely any actual law, with too many unnecessary formalities that are completely outdated. 

There weren’t that many perks tbh, free Christmas party with free meal and free bar if you count that or a free bar event at end of financial year in April.  I don’t drink so all the free drinks in the world is lost on me.

I mean I met a lot of nice and smart people, some cases are interesting but in the grand scheme of things it’s just killing my soul.  I should have been a dentist or something, that no doubt pays more.

Musicman20

TheBigDipper said:

If you know what you'd like to do instead, just do it now. It will never get any easier and the further up the greasy pole you go the harder it will be to change because you'll be earning (and spending) more. Curious - are you in high street law or corporate law? 

High street - I've been in massive firms, and smaller firms, but all the work is Clin Neg. I've not worked in corporate before.

Musicman20

richh said:

There are a few guys who trained in law and then went other routes, such as Bob Mortimer & Derren Brown.  They didn't do too badly for themselves!

I always assumed the money would be very good for somebody in a law career, but can't say that it ever sounded particularly exciting TBH.

Good luck whatever you do decide to do though!

Thanks! Yes, unfortunately I was informed years ago by advisers that law paid well, provided good benefits, and that hard work would be rewarded. Unfortunately, the only person to benefit from your hard work, ultimately, is the Partner(s).

The pay is pretty bad. I'm comfy, but I know of people who have just walked into jobs with no qualifications who are paid more. Most teachers, even junior, are paid more than me.

Fretwired

Get as much experience as you can and some savings and setup on your own. I know plenty of one man band lawyers and am currently doing some marketing for a guy who specialises in employment law. He works from a home office, has clients on a retainer and works about 30 hours a week and earns decent money. His overheads are low and he charges typical London rates for his work.

I know another guy who does commercial law and works on takeovers, mergers, shareholder agreements and so forth. He tends to work long hours on a project that pays well and then takes time off. Typically 10 or so projects a year.

Working for yourself is where the money is .. become an expert., provide a good service and you'll find you don't need that many clients.