What happened to our ears?

Sassafras

If it hadn't been for the internet I would never have seen your excellent post @Gassage ;

Sassafras

Have you got a link for the GE-7 settings thread?
I'm also struggling with some of the sliders and I'm apprehensive about moving them too far one way or the other.

ESBlonde

Now so much music is a computer generated sound there is no soul. That and heavily buggered compressed music files have now been so long in the mainstream market that a generation of listeners know of little else and the rest of the population are more conditioned to a souless soundscape with a singing gymnast spattered over the top for good measure along with the obligatory poet sprouting indistinguisable pap.
There is real music, but it is hard to find. People want to stand out for something, but just playing instruments well together isn't that it seems.

crunchman

further said:

stratman3142 said:

Gassage said:

As an e.g. close to my heart, Gilmour would never have made Echoes if he'd not plugged his wah in wrong. 

How did Gilmour plug his wah in wrong, what was the wah pedal make and year (did it have any mods) and can you explain the technique he used (maybe make a video). Then I can recreate that sound

Here you  go
http://www.gilmourish.com/?p=256

Presumably that needs an old style Wah without a proper bypass.

darthed1981

Gassage said:

Why are we confining instruments of creativity to a commoditised viewpoint via concensus?

You are Morrissey, and I claim my £5

stephen.wood125

Good point and well made. I was discussing this with a mate of mine recently and we figured we were lucky as we used to have to work out songs using our ears and rewinding the CD/tape to listen again. The latest youtube lessons for everything made it a lot more accessible but it's harder to take a lesson and extrapolate outwards. Training your ears is one of the most useful things you can do because it translates to other instruments well.

merlin

Wis duly awarded. 

Teetonetal

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@Teetonetal you have a point, but usually they want it by next week, not in however long it takes you to learn it by ear. And even when learning it by ear you're still writing it down so basically you're doing someone else's job. In the case of set pieces I don't see why you shouldn't read it rather than recite it, it makes little difference to quality of the performance other than to minimise the possibility of playing the wrong thing. The punters want to hear the right notes played in the right order, and half the time they don't care if they're sequenced.

I don't really follow the bold bit. Whose job are you doing?

Beyond tribute acts (who can be very anal), I'm not sure than any punter would expect to hear a live song note for note - they want the feel of the song, certain set pieces and riffs and a strong vocal.

Lots of groups don't even play many solos note for note.

I have nothing against learning to read at all, it's a useful skill. But I think the occasions where I've had to draw on my reading skills are insignificant compared to those where I needed to use my ears. Last year I did an awesome gig with a local band, they hired me as they had a big gig and wanted to beef up their sound a bit. I had no rehearsal, just a CD given a couple of days before, real busking situation, I learnt what I needed, (structure, chord sequence, couple of harmonized solos) and for the rest just let my ears take over at the gig. Probably the most fun thing I've ever done.  2 and 1/2 hour set flew by.

To my mind, developing you hearing is just about the most important thing you can do.

HAL9000

ESBlonde said:

Now so much music is a computer generated sound there is no soul. That and heavily buggered compressed music files have now been so long in the mainstream market that a generation of listeners know of little else and the rest of the population are more conditioned to a souless soundscape with a singing gymnast spattered over the top for good measure along with the obligatory poet sprouting indistinguisable pap.
There is real music, but it is hard to find. People want to stand out for something, but just playing instruments well together isn't that it seems.

So true. If I could give multiple wisdoms I would. People now seem to want to get famous by appearing on a reality show or some such rather than putting in any real effort. Also, the likes of X Factor will only ever find generic artists - it is never going to find the next Springsteen, Lennon, Dylan, or whatever.

57Deluxe

This isn't such a silly request when you get manufacturers including specific tone settings with their gear...

https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--iZ_O8H9A--/a_180/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_1600,q_80,w_1600/v1503507957/dflioblivm8yuiyhnmvy.jpg

Teetonetal

HAL9000 said:

ESBlonde said:

Now so much music is a computer generated sound there is no soul. That and heavily buggered compressed music files have now been so long in the mainstream market that a generation of listeners know of little else and the rest of the population are more conditioned to a souless soundscape with a singing gymnast spattered over the top for good measure along with the obligatory poet sprouting indistinguisable pap.
There is real music, but it is hard to find. People want to stand out for something, but just playing instruments well together isn't that it seems.

So true. If I could give multiple wisdoms I would. People now seem to want to get famous by appearing on a reality show or some such rather than putting in any real effort. Also, the likes of X Factor will only ever find generic artists - it is never going to find the next Springsteen, Lennon, Dylan, or whatever.

Is this a new thing? I mean we used to have opportunity knocks, stars in their eyes, even Karaoke is nothing more than people slamming out songs to a backing track. 

There were made up groups in the the 60's (Monkey's), 70's (Bay City Rollers) etc..  Novelty hits have always been there too.

there are some really, really good bands around at the moment, but maybe the simple answer is that either, you haven't found them, or they are not your cup of tea. 

X factor and the like is not music, it's TV.

guitarfishbay

Is there any particular benefit to not asking a question you don't know the answer to?

The reality is, only a tiny percentage of people in a creative field will make a global impact and change things.  A massive percentage of people just want to enjoy the hobby - and doing that is easier now than ever before.  As is discussing it. 

I mean this whole forum is about discussing music and music gear... you could answer pretty much every post in the gear section with 'use your ears' - it'd be a dull forum very quickly.

VimFuego

Teetonetal said:

HAL9000 said:

ESBlonde said:

Now so much music is a computer generated sound there is no soul. That and heavily buggered compressed music files have now been so long in the mainstream market that a generation of listeners know of little else and the rest of the population are more conditioned to a souless soundscape with a singing gymnast spattered over the top for good measure along with the obligatory poet sprouting indistinguisable pap.
There is real music, but it is hard to find. People want to stand out for something, but just playing instruments well together isn't that it seems.

So true. If I could give multiple wisdoms I would. People now seem to want to get famous by appearing on a reality show or some such rather than putting in any real effort. Also, the likes of X Factor will only ever find generic artists - it is never going to find the next Springsteen, Lennon, Dylan, or whatever.

Is this a new thing? I mean we used to have opportunity knocks, stars in their eyes, even Karaoke is nothing more than people slamming out songs to a backing track. 

There were made up groups in the the 60's (Monkey's), 70's (Bay City Rollers) etc..  Novelty hits have always been there too.

there are some really, really good bands around at the moment, but maybe the simple answer is that either, you haven't found them, or they are not your cup of tea. 

X factor and the like is not music, it's TV.

in the folk world, not only are there loads of great bands and acts out there doing really interesting stuff, there's almost too many of them (I actually think there may be overload, and they will struggle to find enough venues to perform at and struggle to make some sort of living), and more join the circuit each year. 

Phil_aka_Pip

@Teetonetal ;; in the bold bit, I was feeling a bit like a player who's been asked to join a string quartet, the gig is Beethoven, they want it note for note but there's no sheet music you have to listen to the record. That's what it felt like when I applied for a band hoping it would be as you described your fun experience, and then finding out they wanted everything note-for-note. And they didn't get it when I said that Hendrix, Cream, Purple, Zeppelin etc didn't play the same thing every night, they just said But the Eagles do, so I said why don't the punters stay at home and listen to the record then? and the Drummer said "I'm from an Eagles tribute band and I want it note for note".

I don't mind listening to things to get the gist of it. Hell, I've done the listening bit in the intro and first verse before now - and had fun, like you did. But I insist that if someone wants me to play something specific - that isn't immediately obvious from listening to the record - then they had better write it down because that's the only way I'm going to play it note-for-note. And writing it down is IMO not my job. I don't care if it's a copyists job, or that of the bloke who publishes a Rock Score, or that of a bandleader who has a specific thing in mind. But it isn't mine. I'd treat it as my job is there was something specific I wanted someone else to play, but I've usually found that when I do that, they turn round and say they can't read it.

EDIT: to put it simply, if you want me to play something, tell me what to play. you do that by putting music in front of me.

ESBlonde

Teetonetal said:

HAL9000 said:

ESBlonde said:

Now so much music is a computer generated sound there is no soul. That and heavily buggered compressed music files have now been so long in the mainstream market that a generation of listeners know of little else and the rest of the population are more conditioned to a souless soundscape with a singing gymnast spattered over the top for good measure along with the obligatory poet sprouting indistinguisable pap.
There is real music, but it is hard to find. People want to stand out for something, but just playing instruments well together isn't that it seems.

So true. If I could give multiple wisdoms I would. People now seem to want to get famous by appearing on a reality show or some such rather than putting in any real effort. Also, the likes of X Factor will only ever find generic artists - it is never going to find the next Springsteen, Lennon, Dylan, or whatever.

Is this a new thing? I mean we used to have opportunity knocks, stars in their eyes, even Karaoke is nothing more than people slamming out songs to a backing track. 

There were made up groups in the the 60's (Monkey's), 70's (Bay City Rollers) etc..  Novelty hits have always been there too.

there are some really, really good bands around at the moment, but maybe the simple answer is that either, you haven't found them, or they are not your cup of tea. 

X factor and the like is not music, it's TV.

Whilst what you say is true (and even before with the likes of Larry Parnes) the difference is that there was a live band supporting them and indeed there often is on the Y factor. The charts though are full of or influenced by machine music and electronic devices with the 'talent' superimposed on top, whether that a singer/group or a rapper! It was brought home to me more recently by watching a you tube of this

The elements create a summary of the whole rather than just a product.
I fully get that it's the music business, but (and it may well be an age thing) I miss musicianship as an art form in the popular charts.

Sassafras

With the advent of electronic tuners we no longer have to endure the gruelling process of relying on our ears.

viz

TTony said:

Gassage said:

Have we now gotten to a point where it's quicker to ask for settings, or where to place a pedal, or what pedal to get via typing a post and then trawling through loads of conflicting answers to try and find the answer that we've been searching for via proxy?

What happened to using our ears?

The internet

Virus

LuttiS

Brief moment away from the topic at hand:

@Gassage ;said:

What happened to using our ears?

It probably has something to do with standing in front of overly loud amps and what not for too many years.

Can't use ears if you can't hear anything anymore



I'll get me coat.

aaannnd back to the actual topic.Go!

p90fool

Teetonetal said:

HAL9000 said:

ESBlonde said:

Now so much music is a computer generated sound there is no soul. That and heavily buggered compressed music files have now been so long in the mainstream market that a generation of listeners know of little else and the rest of the population are more conditioned to a souless soundscape with a singing gymnast spattered over the top for good measure along with the obligatory poet sprouting indistinguisable pap.
There is real music, but it is hard to find. People want to stand out for something, but just playing instruments well together isn't that it seems.

So true. If I could give multiple wisdoms I would. People now seem to want to get famous by appearing on a reality show or some such rather than putting in any real effort. Also, the likes of X Factor will only ever find generic artists - it is never going to find the next Springsteen, Lennon, Dylan, or whatever.

Is this a new thing? I mean we used to have opportunity knocks, stars in their eyes, even Karaoke is nothing more than people slamming out songs to a backing track. 

There were made up groups in the the 60's (Monkey's), 70's (Bay City Rollers) etc..  Novelty hits have always been there too.

there are some really, really good bands around at the moment, but maybe the simple answer is that either, you haven't found them, or they are not your cup of tea. 

X factor and the like is not music, it's TV.

Exactly, if you take any individual weekly singles chart from the last 60 years it will be mostly made up of guff, but as the years pass we only remember the stuff we liked, and add them all together into some kind of golden age. 

It does ebb and flow a bit, you may get a couple of years when there seems to be a bit more good stuff around here and there, but a lot of what greybeards regard as classic rock which has stood the test of time was completely unknown to the average teen who listened to whatever DLT, Peter Powell or Jimmy Savile fed them. 

School friends of mine in the mid-70s laughed in my face when I tried to convince them that bands like Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin played waaay bigger gigs than Lynsey de Paul or Gilbert O'Sullivan. To them it was impossible that someone they had genuinely never heard of could be a massive, worldwide stadium act. 

In this country at least it's always been necessary to hunt for good music, there certainly wasn't much of it on peak time weekend TV or daytime radio. 

frank1985

Same applies to mixing...the moment I just started experimenting and trusting my own instincts instead of looking up ideal compression, EQ settings etc. is when I started to actually make progress.