Tarting a house up

JezWynd

Phil_aka_Pip said:

An estate agent hassled me about my music room - "there's too much stuff in here, the amount of floor space is tiny". I couldn't believe how dumb she was. I said "Why are you looking at the floor? Don't you ever direct the buyer's eyes to the ceiling?" (The ceiling is usually a far better gauge of the room's dimensions because you can see it going right back to the walls, whereas even if the stuff against the walls isn't musical equipment it still doesn't show the floorspace right up to the wall.)

You call an expert in and then criticise when they (rightly) point out that minimal available floor space makes a room look too small for its purpose and therefore hard to sell.

Phil_aka_Pip

@ESBlonde Yes, I'd even pay to have the garden tidied. I'm not sure British weather is conducive to having a sofa and a telly in the garden - if it was, I might like to try it

Phil_aka_Pip

JezWynd said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

An estate agent hassled me about my music room - "there's too much stuff in here, the amount of floor space is tiny". I couldn't believe how dumb she was. I said "Why are you looking at the floor? Don't you ever direct the buyer's eyes to the ceiling?" (The ceiling is usually a far better gauge of the room's dimensions because you can see it going right back to the walls, whereas even if the stuff against the walls isn't musical equipment it still doesn't show the floorspace right up to the wall.)

You call an expert in and then criticise when they (rightly) point out that minimal available floor space makes a room look too small for its purpose and therefore hard to sell.

Yes, because (i) another agent (different area, different company) told me the ceiling trick (ii) I wasn't after her opinion on the presentation of the house - which I knew at the time was less than optimal - I wanted an opinion on the value of the house given its size, location, number of rooms etc.

Octafish

boogieman said:

Oh and if you do have to paint any woodwork, don’t use oil based paints. The good ol’ EU regs means that the paint manufacturers have had to change the formulations, so the majority of oil based paints now go yellow in a matter of months. Use water based ones and you don’t get the issue. 

The dastardly EU brought in new regs regarding VOCs in 2010. Dulux and some others had an initial issue with their 2010 compliant formulations yellowing months after application. This was supposedly solved within the year and is no longer an issue.

Worth noting that pre-2010 white oil paint has always yellowed, just it normally takes years to happen. As a former painter/house renovator I had many occasions where customer would be shocked just how much what they thought was still pristine paintwork had yellowed, something they only noticed when in contrast to the new  paint I was applyiing.

I'm not sure why anyone would use oil paint indoors these days anyway (unless they want full on garish old people gloss shine). Takes ages to dry, stinks, is a pain to clean up and can't be coated up often for days. Professionally I moved over to water based which, contrary to popular myth, is just as tough as oil paints.

Octafish

Dominic said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Following on from @BRISTOL86 's House Move Dilemma thread, I just wondered what kind of answers I'd get to "How would you tart your house up?"

FWIW I do it the way I'd like to have the house for living in or how I'd like to find it. That is:

• walls & ceilings - pure brilliant white emulsion
• painted woodwork (if there must be any) - pure brilliant white gloss
• natural woodwork (preferable) - clear varnish
• curtain poles (not nasty plastic rails)
• floors: bathroom, loos - vinyl (white flags or light woodblock)
• floors: kitchen, dining room, entrance hall - vinyl (light woodblock)
• carpets - light biscuity colour
• room colour schemes: simple colours no patterns, colour is room dependent and mainly stated by soft furnishings eg curtains & cushion covers

rationale: light, makes use of every photon that comes in through the window, maximises feeling of space, nothing in the "fixed" decor to clash with any change of mind in the soft furnishings dept

what do you do?

Just one tip........."gloss" woodwork officially died about 30 years ago
Eggshell/Satinwood is the go to

Yep, gloss is horrible shiney shit indoors, sort of thing that old duffers who like to sit under 150 watt lightbulbs (oh no, the evil EU banned them as well ) like. Varnished woodwork is all very 80s as well and neither is likely to help sell a house to the majority of buyers. Eggshell looks the best, particularly if you've got old real wood doors, architraves, windows etc.

boogieman

Octafish said:

boogieman said:

Oh and if you do have to paint any woodwork, don’t use oil based paints. The good ol’ EU regs means that the paint manufacturers have had to change the formulations, so the majority of oil based paints now go yellow in a matter of months. Use water based ones and you don’t get the issue. 

The dastardly EU brought in new regs regarding VOCs in 2010. Dulux and some others had an initial issue with their 2010 compliant formulations yellowing months after application. This was supposedly solved within the year and is no longer an issue.

Worth noting that pre-2010 white oil paint has always yellowed, just it normally takes years to happen. As a former painter/house renovator I had many occasions where customer would be shocked just how much what they thought was still pristine paintwork had yellowed, something they only noticed when in contrast to the new  paint I was applyiing.

I'm not sure why anyone would use oil paint indoors these days anyway (unless they want full on garish old people gloss shine). Takes ages to dry, stinks, is a pain to clean up and can't be coated up often for days. Professionally I moved over to water based which, contrary to popular myth, is just as tough as oil paints.

You’re probably more aware of paints than me, but the last lot of oil based paint I used not that long back  (eggshell btw, I detest gloss as well) has gone yellowish in six months. It was Wickes stuff, made by Johnson’s I believe. 

57Deluxe

Rocker

Prospective buyers are not interested in your usage of the house. Get rid (put it in storage) of exercise equipment, hi-fi, anything and everything that clutters the place up. You are selling the space. Always remember that. It goes without saying that you tidy the outside too. Buy a few flowers in pots for each side of the door. Remove trampoline and other similar items. If that feel OTT, fine.

Selling the house is your aim, not showing how you used it.

Dominic

Phil_aka_Pip said:

JezWynd said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

An estate agent hassled me about my music room - "there's too much stuff in here, the amount of floor space is tiny". I couldn't believe how dumb she was. I said "Why are you looking at the floor? Don't you ever direct the buyer's eyes to the ceiling?" (The ceiling is usually a far better gauge of the room's dimensions because you can see it going right back to the walls, whereas even if the stuff against the walls isn't musical equipment it still doesn't show the floorspace right up to the wall.)

You call an expert in and then criticise when they (rightly) point out that minimal available floor space makes a room look too small for its purpose and therefore hard to sell.

Yes, because (i) another agent (different area, different company) told me the ceiling trick (ii) I wasn't after her opinion on the presentation of the house - which I knew at the time was less than optimal - I wanted an opinion on the value of the house given its size, location, number of rooms etc.

An estate agent is a low rent marketing person ( pun int. )........their "valuation"is inherently influenced by saleability/marketing prospects;
they come and give a FREE  valuation based on the supposition that you may use their commission based service and therefore eventually earn money from you.Hence their marketing suggestions re floorspace and general impression
If you want pure "valuation"and no marketing pitch then instruct a chartered surveyor who will charge you something like £500 as a professional fee .
The agents opinion of value is inextricably linked to the presentation - she was not dumb; she was doing her job and acting in your interest with good intent.

Octafish

boogieman said:

Octafish said:

boogieman said:

Oh and if you do have to paint any woodwork, don’t use oil based paints. The good ol’ EU regs means that the paint manufacturers have had to change the formulations, so the majority of oil based paints now go yellow in a matter of months. Use water based ones and you don’t get the issue. 

The dastardly EU brought in new regs regarding VOCs in 2010. Dulux and some others had an initial issue with their 2010 compliant formulations yellowing months after application. This was supposedly solved within the year and is no longer an issue.

Worth noting that pre-2010 white oil paint has always yellowed, just it normally takes years to happen. As a former painter/house renovator I had many occasions where customer would be shocked just how much what they thought was still pristine paintwork had yellowed, something they only noticed when in contrast to the new  paint I was applyiing.

I'm not sure why anyone would use oil paint indoors these days anyway (unless they want full on garish old people gloss shine). Takes ages to dry, stinks, is a pain to clean up and can't be coated up often for days. Professionally I moved over to water based which, contrary to popular myth, is just as tough as oil paints.

You’re probably more aware of paints than me, but the last lot of oil based paint I used not that long back  (eggshell btw, I detest gloss as well) has gone yellowish in six months. It was Wickes stuff, made by Johnson’s I believe. 

Well in all honesty I never used own brand or cheap stuff, nearly always dissappoints. If doing it for a living, it's never worth saving £20 here or there on materials considering how intensive the labour can be. Most paint brands are all owned by a handful of chemical companies, many by Akzo Nobel (Sikkens, Sadolin, Dulux, International, Cuprinol, Hammerite etc)  in particular. They just make them to different price points/quality.

Phil_aka_Pip

I've begun to like Leyland paints.

Octafish

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I've begun to like Leyland paints.

They're Johnstone's aren't they? Of the cheaper trade stuff I always found Glidden to be pretty good stuff.

Phil_aka_Pip

Octafish said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I've begun to like Leyland paints.

They're Johnstone's aren't they? Of the cheaper trade stuff I always found Glidden to be pretty good stuff.

I don't know, I've not looked at the tin while I'm wearing reading glasses. Not seen any Glidden paints around here.

Octafish

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Octafish said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I've begun to like Leyland paints.

They're Johnstone's aren't they? Of the cheaper trade stuff I always found Glidden to be pretty good stuff.

I don't know, I've not looked at the tin while I'm wearing reading glasses. Not seen any Glidden paints around here.

Kent Blaxill if you're in East Anglia area.

ESBlonde

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@ESBlonde Yes, I'd even pay to have the garden tidied. I'm not sure British weather is conducive to having a sofa and a telly in the garden - if it was, I might like to try it

Over the boarder in Jaywick it's a fashion statement. It doesn't have to be a working Telly appearantly! Who knew.

Phil_aka_Pip

@ESBlonde I know what you mean, except that I didn't know Jaywick had any idea of "fashion statement"

WezV

Phil_aka_Pip said:

An estate agent hassled me about my music room - "there's too much stuff in here, the amount of floor space is tiny". I couldn't believe how dumb she was. I said "Why are you looking at the floor? Don't you ever direct the buyer's eyes to the ceiling?" (The ceiling is usually a far better gauge of the room's dimensions because you can see it going right back to the walls, whereas even if the stuff against the walls isn't musical equipment it still doesn't show the floorspace right up to the wall.)

Reasons to move musical equipment or HiFi out include not letting anyone know you have valuable gear in there so they can't blab about what they've seen in the pub where the local burglars might hear it. IMO they do not include trying not to put people off from buying a place when that stuff isn't going to be there by the time they've bought it: the very fact that there's stuff in there shows that there is space to put it! The house particulars will quote the room dimensions, and as I said, the ceiling is usually all the evidence you need.

BRISTOL86 said:

Seems massively OTT to be hiding your kettle and toaster away unless you’re selling an empty house. Any sensible buyer knows they’re buying a property that’s currently lived in.

By all means fix up anything that’s likely to be a deterrent to any buyer like plaster repairs and broken things but that doesn’t include kettles and toasters!

I think that also applies to HiFi and musical equipment. It would also apply to exercise bikes, gym equipment,  things for other pastimes or even childrens' toys (so long as they're relatively tidy). There's a limit to how bland you can make a house that is being lived in.

that's fine  as long as you accept your house may take longer to sell by ignoring the sensible advise offered

You have to aim at the people who can't see past clutter and décor, the ones who look at floor space rather than ceiling space.   It also helps to show them as much of the property they are buying as possible.  They are not buying your clutter so its just in the way of what they actually want to see.   Clutter can be used to hide problems, maybe ones the seller does not know about.

Personally, I want to know the seller is a bit organised, and has started preparing to actually get out. It makes life much easier on moving day.   I have been involved in a few moves where the seller just isn't ready in time and the buyer ends up waiting outside, or even helping them pack up to get them out. ... its always the ones with a lot of clutter.  

Phil_aka_Pip

@WezV Mate, it's not 'clutter', it's my stuff. I LIVE there. While I do what I can to present the place clean & tidy, I can't put everything in storage for an indeterminate length of time (can't afford it for one thing, neither can I suspend my life for any longer than is necessary to move out). You are of course right, buyers are not buying my "clutter" but they do need to understand that my stuff isn't going to be there when I'm gone but it must be here until I go. Directing buyers' eyes to ceiling space and wall-to-wall measurements is a job to be shared by seller and estate agent. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't reject a place with the right floorplan in the right area with adequate dimensions just because of the decor or what the current owners have in the place.

WezV

That’s absolutely fine.... but will mean it takes longer to sell your house.

if that’s okay, carry on as you are.  If not, try listening to professional advice.

WezV

Your stuff through a buyers eyes IS clutter.