Zoom g3. Educate me!

mike_l

For me, I'd just use the mod/delays and not bother with the drives/amp sims.

If Zoom had made something like the G3, but and just put the mods/delays on it I'd happily use one.

vasselmeyer

I'm interested in the opinions of people using the G3 as their sole effects unit for live work. I can't try this for a few days so I'm just idling the time away wondering how others would approach this.

We've got a gig coming up which has a TINY space to set up and there is no way my IKEA Gorm board will work. Space is so limited that I'm not even sure that my M13 will do the job. My Egnater 212 will also be too big so I'm planning on using an old Johnson modelling amp but going into the effects return using the G3's amp sims. Gear chain will be as follows:

Guitar > wah > Zoom G3 > reverb > effects return of amp

I've set up a couple of G3 patches that sound pretty good so far in isolation, but as a two-guitar band, I want a fairly big jump in volume for a lead sound. The effects chains I am setting up in the G3 tend to be as follows:

comp > booster > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ

However, whatever effect I use for the lead sound doesn't give me the volume jump I'm after. I'm guessing that whatever booster I'm using (I've tried the TS, the Booster, the Guv'nor, and the Hot Box) is just making the amp simulation overdrive more as the booster is just goosing the preamp emulation and giving me more gain.

Is there any experience that people can offer for this. I'm away at the moment so don't really have a chance to play with it, but any opinions on whether the booster would sound OK after the amp model? I'm wondering whether the Zoom's amp models are actually modelling the preamp instead of the power amp so I could stick a volume boost after the amp sim, as if it were going in an effects loop.

I know the easy answer is just "try it" (and I will) but I know there a few people on here who have gone G3 entirely, inluding amp sims, and I wondered if any of them were reading this, how they would approach the set up.

AlanP

@vasselmeyer

I don't use a G3, but I have an MS50G for exactly the same reason...  I think the algorithms/models are pretty much the same right across Zoom's range (although some pedals have simplified setup pages).  The main difference as far as I can tell, is that a) the MS50 is the size of single pedal, and b) you have only one single 'focus' (ie. the way *I* use it at least, you can only foot-switch a single effect.)

In fact, I use it on my 'big board' too for noise reduction and a bit of gentle compression, plus a bit of dirt (that's where the 'focus' is).  It is also there to provide things that I don't have as discrete pedals (trem, stuff like that, which I don't really use ATM, but might need one day).

So for drive/dirt, rather than any actual dirt pedal models, there is some kind of Fender Combo Amp model I use - it has a volume control and a front-end gain control to determine the amount of filth (I like only a moderate amount of filth, me...).  IT has the usual set of tone controls, but the bit you might miss (and I'm guessing might be on the G3 as well) is the last page, where you can set up the type of speaker it is modelling, plus how it is mic'ed up.  Well, despite how accurate that might or might not be, it does give really a lot of additional control over the sound when you kick it in.

Best of all, it will run for many hours from a *decent* set of rechargeables, and is a complete all-in-one having tuner, delays and reverb etc for stand-alone use (I guess you have the same on the G3, except more control due to more foot-switches...)  If I want to push the boat out, I'll take a single analogue dirt pedal to stick in front of it... but I probably don't really *need* that too much...

I'm sure a G3 would be a great all-in-one for the limited foot-space situation you suggest, and I find the sounds (the ones *I* use at least, for me) really usable...

Branshen

@vasselmeyer Yea. Put the booster after the amp. The pedals emulate real pedals so the order they are placed in affects them they way you expect them to affect real stomp boxes and amps.

p90fool

I use a graphic EQ at the end of the chain which I set for a volume and slight mid cut, so ON is my rhythm sound and OFF is my lead sound.

UnclePsychosis

@vasselmeyer

Instead of having a single patch where you step on a boost effect for a solo, why not have two (nearly identical) patches that you switch between instead? That way you can just use the patch level for the required volume jump.

eg:

Patch A is (comp > booster (off) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ) at patch level 80

Patch B is (comp > booster (on) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ ) at patch level 90

monquixote

UnclePsychosis said:

@vasselmeyer

Instead of having a single patch where you step on a boost effect for a solo, why not have two (nearly identical) patches that you switch between instead? That way you can just use the patch level for the required volume jump.

eg:

Patch A is (comp > booster (off) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ) at patch level 80

Patch B is (comp > booster (on) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ ) at patch level 90

Because the G3 doesn't do patch switching. 

Idiotic oversight in an otherwise brilliant product.

UnclePsychosis

monquixote said:

UnclePsychosis said:

@vasselmeyer

Instead of having a single patch where you step on a boost effect for a solo, why not have two (nearly identical) patches that you switch between instead? That way you can just use the patch level for the required volume jump.

eg:

Patch A is (comp > booster (off) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ) at patch level 80

Patch B is (comp > booster (on) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ ) at patch level 90

Because the G3 doesn't do patch switching. 

Idiotic oversight in an otherwise brilliant product.

It doesn't? The B3 does...  :-/

UnclePsychosis

monquixote said:

UnclePsychosis said:

@vasselmeyer

Instead of having a single patch where you step on a boost effect for a solo, why not have two (nearly identical) patches that you switch between instead? That way you can just use the patch level for the required volume jump.

eg:

Patch A is (comp > booster (off) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ) at patch level 80

Patch B is (comp > booster (on) > chorus/phaser > delay > amp > Graphic EQ ) at patch level 90

Because the G3 doesn't do patch switching. 

Idiotic oversight in an otherwise brilliant product.

I just read the G3 manual. It definitely does patch switching? Hold down the left footswitch, then use the other two to change patches. Holding down the left one again gets you out of patch select. 

ICBM

I certainly does patch switching - I have mine here in front of me. The slight flaw it has is that Bank up/down takes you *directly* to the new patch (same button number in new bank), instead of waiting for you to select the patch number, so you can't jump between patches which are not adjacent. But you can solve that more or less by saving the ones you want into the same bank - with the limit that you then only get three per song, although for me that would usually be enough - except that would then limit you to ten different sets and I might want a specific set for each song.

vasselmeyer

The G3 does do patch switching though only one up and one down as @ICBM says. That means you have to have the patches right next to each other and that's not always convenient.

I was hoping to avoid doing it with patch switching and just switch individual effects in and out from one patch so the idea from @p90fool is a good one. Any chance you can share the patch settings for the amp model and EQ? It would be nice to have somewhere to start.

koneguitarist

I am useless with FX units but even I can get a good drive sound out of the G3X, love it.

So simple to use. 

Start by turning everything off, set amp upas normal, turn your drive of choice on and fiddle with it as you'd a normal pedal. Then add another pedal and so on. 

ICBM

I just did a bit of messing around with mine and I discovered that for some reason it's far easier to get it to sound good as a USB recording interface - which I was struggling with - if you first dial it in going into a real, analogue full-range system... in my case my "Professional Multiple Amplifier" which is like a cross between a keyboard amp and an acoustic amp. After doing that and getting happy with an amp model - FD Combo, which involved bizarre settings I wouldn't have expected, like bass on full and treble and mid on zero - it was then easy to use those as the starting point when it was going into the computer, and end up with something that now sounds better than the equivalent Garageband model.

I'm still not totally happy with the pedal drives, they still sound rather generic and lack the character of the real pedals - almost as if it's the same basic distortion effect, with radically different EQ applied to it possibly both before and after - but I'm making progress. It's just annoying how much further away from 'right' it is out of the box compared to the B3... with that, I literally took it to band practice the day I got it, tried a couple of drive pedal models with the stock settings and I've been using them with almost no adjustment ever since.

koneguitarist

I didn't use any drives for about 3 months, now it's all I use.

ICBM

I actually think that if they opened up the concept in the same way as a smartphone and made it possible to download new independently-developed effects from an 'App Store' when you wanted to try something, it could well be The Future... store up to 100 effects of your choice, using up to six at once and in any order at the touch of a few buttons. Assuming it sounded at least as good as it does now, would there really be any point in using a traditional pedalboard, for most players?

monquixote

That's not patch switching that's scrolling through presets. Totally unusable at a gig

ThePrettyDamned

mike_l;247660" said:

For me, I'd just use the mod/delays and not bother with the drives/amp sims.If Zoom had made something like the G3, but and just put the mods/delays on it I'd happily use one.

I've pondered the ms70cdr, but decided I'd rather have a g3 layout with 3 switches for seperate effects and tap tempo, or something.

But with the models on the ms70cdr thing.

vasselmeyer

monquixote said:

That's not patch switching that's scrolling through presets. Totally unusable at a gig

Agreed, which is why I don't want to do it that way. I want a set of presets (a patch in Zoom's terminology) each for my Tele, my LP and another for my slide guitar. With six pedals/effects in each patch that will get me through a gig easily. It's just that when using the amp sims and going into the power amp on my combo, I'm finding it difficult to get a lead sound with a big enough jump in volume without it oversaturating the amp model and getting too much gain.

I think the idea that @p90fool mentioned is best so far. He suggested setting the amp sim patch as a lead sound then use an EQ preset AFTER it to modify the EQ and volume sowhen it's switched in if gives a rhythm sound.

Grumpyrocker

You can also use the "line select" effect to bypass any FX after it in the chain. 

Branshen

Zoom should implement a "patch mode". Similar to the Digitech RP355. Button 1=patch one, button 2=patch 2, button 3=patch 3. Would be an excellent gigging feature.