Rosewood on Fenders

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

Kittyfrisk said:

So ICBM is correct... again  

I'm just good at looking things up .

I wish this site updated more frequently when typing responses 

Kittyfrisk

Also interesting that although broadly aligned, different wood resources have different values for a scale that is supposed to reduce subjectivity?

ICBM

Kittyfrisk said:

Also interesting that although broadly aligned, different wood resources have different values for a scale that is supposed to reduce subjectivity?

I noticed that too. I assume it's because there are wide variations within species, and possibly no standardised way of averaging them. Wood is just such a  variable material - which of course is partly at the root of the huge differences in subjective opinions about guitars...

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Also interesting that although broadly aligned, different wood resources have different values for a scale that is supposed to reduce subjectivity?

I noticed that too. I assume it's because there are wide variations within species, and possibly no standardised way of averaging them. Wood is just such a  variable material - which of course is partly at the root of the huge differences in subjective opinions about guitars...

Clearly this is a variation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, applied to wood & guitar discussions.
We're all correct, at the same time.
I'll consider that a win, you can too  :-D

ICBM

Kittyfrisk said:

Clearly this is a variation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, applied to wood & guitar discussions.

We're all correct, at the same time.
I'll consider that a win, you can too  :-D

You can never precisely measure both the colour and tonality of a piece of wood at the same time. The more picky you get about one, the less predictable the other.

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Clearly this is a variation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, applied to wood & guitar discussions.

We're all correct, at the same time.
I'll consider that a win, you can too  :-D

You can never precisely measure both the colour and tonality of a piece of wood at the same time. The more picky you get about one, the less predictable the other.

After this point all bets are officially off, in almost all dimensions 

tony99

the neckplate has more of an effect on tone than the neck wood type anyway, that's just science

Kittyfrisk

tony99 said:

the neckplate has more of an effect on tone than the neck wood type anyway, that's just science

Here we go, bloody physicists weighing in with their so called facts 
3 screws or four, which is best for critical mass & good vibrations?

tony99

Kittyfrisk said:

tony99 said:

the neckplate has more of an effect on tone than the neck wood type anyway, that's just science

Here we go, bloody physicists weighing in with their so called facts 
3 screws or four, which is best for critical mass & good vibrations?

a theremin

Kittyfrisk

tony99 said:

Kittyfrisk said:

tony99 said:

the neckplate has more of an effect on tone than the neck wood type anyway, that's just science

Here we go, bloody physicists weighing in with their so called facts 
3 screws or four, which is best for critical mass & good vibrations?

a theremin

Is always the answer 
Jests aside, I would love a Theremin to add to my collection of instruments that I love the sound of, but can't play for toffee.
Other sugar based failure standards are available.

tony99

Kittyfrisk said:

tony99 said:

Kittyfrisk said:

tony99 said:

the neckplate has more of an effect on tone than the neck wood type anyway, that's just science

Here we go, bloody physicists weighing in with their so called facts 
3 screws or four, which is best for critical mass & good vibrations?

a theremin

Is always the answer 
Jests aside, I would love a Theremin to add to my collection of instruments that I love the sound of, but can't play for toffee.
Other sugar based failure standards are available.

I'd happily blow a kazoo for a ruffle bar

Kittyfrisk

tony99 said:

Kittyfrisk said:

tony99 said:

Kittyfrisk said:

tony99 said:

the neckplate has more of an effect on tone than the neck wood type anyway, that's just science

Here we go, bloody physicists weighing in with their so called facts 
3 screws or four, which is best for critical mass & good vibrations?

a theremin

Is always the answer 
Jests aside, I would love a Theremin to add to my collection of instruments that I love the sound of, but can't play for toffee.
Other sugar based failure standards are available.

I'd happily blow a kazoo for a ruffle bar

I've heard that shouted out on many an evening in unsalubrious areas of Place Pigalle...
Or was it Moss Side?

crunchman

thegummy said:

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

Going by this I think I must have the wrong idea about which materials are softer than others.

I thought the order of hardness was maple and ebony being the hardest (I don't know if either of those are harder than the other) then pau ferro is softer then rosewood is softer still.

Is that not the case?

No - maple is the softest (typically 1450 for most types of hard maple), then most varieties of rosewood (1780), then Pau Ferro (2400), then ebony (3220) being the hardest, on the Janka scale.

https://www.bestbassgear.com/ebass/ideas/wood-hardness-chart-bigger-better-more-woods.html

(Pau Ferro is listed as Bolivian Rosewood there.)

That's pretty much blown my mind, I really thought that maple was the hardest, I wonder why I thought that.

I wonder if the maple boards being varnished and the rosewood ones not has been part of what made me think the maple was harder.

Glad to have such knowledgeable people here as well as questioning people, I'd never have known this if I wasn't questioned on why I wanted the rosewood board.

Possibly.

I think part of the perceived tonal difference could be construction as well.  A lot of maple board Fenders are a one piece neck with the truss rod inserted from the back - hence the skunk stripe.

I don't know if anyone has attempted a systematic comparision of a one piece maple neck, versus a maple neck with a glued on maple board, versus a maple neck with a glued on rosewood board.

Regarding colour, like I said above, some Brazilian rosewood is not dark.

Have a look at the guitar in the first post here:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/find-the-original-prs-300s-1990-1991-limited-edition-prs-guitars-reunited.1685959/

I used to own one of those, and the BRW was very light in colour, maybe even lighter than that one.

clarkefan

thegummy said:

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

Going by this I think I must have the wrong idea about which materials are softer than others.

I thought the order of hardness was maple and ebony being the hardest (I don't know if either of those are harder than the other) then pau ferro is softer then rosewood is softer still.

Is that not the case?

No - maple is the softest (typically 1450 for most types of hard maple), then most varieties of rosewood (1780), then Pau Ferro (2400), then ebony (3220) being the hardest, on the Janka scale.

https://www.bestbassgear.com/ebass/ideas/wood-hardness-chart-bigger-better-more-woods.html

(Pau Ferro is listed as Bolivian Rosewood there.)

That's pretty much blown my mind, I really thought that maple was the hardest, I wonder why I thought that.

I wonder if the maple boards being varnished and the rosewood ones not has been part of what made me think the maple was harder.

Glad to have such knowledgeable people here as well as questioning people, I'd never have known this if I wasn't questioned on why I wanted the rosewood board.

You're not alone, I've always thought maple was harder than rosewood as well.

I'm personally happy that maple fretboard eg Strats sound "snappier" than rosewood versions, because I've done that test, same everything etc.  It was audible, no special equipment required, just loosen the strings and swap necks, not rocket science.

Now I'm wondering what makes the difference if not maple hardness.