Pono - a replacement for MP3 & iPod?

Drew_TNBD

Rocker;262056" said:

With respect @monquixote it does. And the degree surprised even me. I heard the hi-res Rolling Stones Grrrrrrr album at a hi-fi dealers showroom recently. By chance I had a few Stones songs ripped uncompressed to a USB stick with me. The difference was obvious after five seconds listening.... Even the early recordings sounded better.

)

We already know your stance on facts and actual science from the windfarms thread.

Early recordings sounding better? LOL!!! Yeah right.

Gagaryn

I'll avoid the bit rate arguments but, much though I love NY, won't be buying a Pono.

Apart from anything else, it would be like walking about with half a family sized Toblerone in your pocket - what the hell are they thinking when it comes to the ergonomics? Looks like this will be rearing it's ugly head and it will sell - the fact that it has already raised almost 10 tmes it's funding target shows that there is a market for this kind of thing even if we think it's daft!

imalone

Grumpyrocker said:

Yup I've read that link before. I do prefer to buy my music in lossless forms - though that's to make sure I can convert into various portable forms without generation loss. I just wish we got better mastered music.

There is a move in metal for some better dynamic recordings. Carcass have been rereleasing their back catalog in high dynamic range form. My favourite record of last year by Witherscape came with the vinyl mix on the CD too. But I think you're right - the war is lost - people like loud shitty music to block out the sound of others on the tube. It's a crying shame.

Actually I meant I thought it was largely over and people were backing off doing brick-wall mastering (the war being between publishers to get the loudest sounding record). There is an argument for compression when listening in noisy backgrounds, but digital players should be able to do that on the fly.

Fretwired

The Pono won't be a replacement for an iPod as it's already been replaced by the iPhone. The whole point of an mp3 can be summed up in one word - convenience. It's for music on the move, in the office down the gym - the soundtrack to your life. Hardly anyone I know listens to a single album from beginning to end. I have two high-end hi-fi systems and I hardly play them. I have 320 kbps music files on my iPod Classics and they sound fine through some decent headphones.

The future is Spotify. One monthly payment for music you can listen to on the move and download to the device of your choice.Even Apple is about to launch a similar service via iTunes. In 10 years time nobody will buy a CD or MP3 ...

And if you want to buy a studio master look no further than here .. http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-grrr--.aspx

Rocker

I am not selling the Pono.  I am not one of the investors in the project.  Like @Gagaryn, I find the Toblerone shape a bit strange.  I only posted it here for information purposes.  Not to generate any aggro or heat.  Definitely not.

Regarding the SQ issue:

I heard two systems, both entirely different, and compared hi-res music to the same ripped uncompressed from CD.  System 1 was a high end computer audio system using JPlay.  System 2 was an entry level Naim Audio system that used streamed files from a NAS. System 1 is superb from bog standard CD and a significant step up when the source is hi-res.  I did consider asking my friend to bring his computer, DAC and pre-amp c/w cables to try it in my system.  System 2 was listened to when I checked out streamers at a hi-fi dealers shop.  I don't like the sound of Naim Audio kit but, putting that dislike aside, it was clear that even with budget kit [if any Naim Audio kit can be called budget kit], the improvement was obvious.

IMHO using in-ear buds, unless they are absolutely top quality ones, hi-res music will make no difference what so ever over bog standard CD quality.  Ditto using so called computer 'speakers'.

ICBM

Gagaryn said:

I'll avoid the bit rate arguments but, much though I love NY, won't be buying a Pono.

Apart from anything else, it would be like walking about with half a family sized Toblerone in your pocket - what the hell are they thinking when it comes to the ergonomics?

I actually quite like the ergonomics. I'm fed up with everything getting thinner, bigger and flatter… more difficult to hold in your hand and easier to break. The last phone I had before my iPhone 4 was a Samsung 'pebble' that was almost an inch thick and very comfortable to hold. I don't like the iPhone 5 either - too big.

I just think the music concept is wrong .

Rocker said:

With respect @monquixote it does. And the degree surprised even me. I heard the hi-res Rolling Stones Grrrrrrr album at a hi-fi dealers showroom recently. By chance I had a few Stones songs ripped uncompressed to a USB stick with me. The difference was obvious after five seconds listening.... Even the early recordings sounded better.

Was it an audio quality USB stick?

Unless you were comparing the exact same songs mastered in the same way it's a meaningless comparison anyway. The difference in the mastering will make a huge difference to the apparent quality, far more than the playback format.

monquixote

ICBM said:

Unless you were comparing the exact same songs mastered in the same way it's a meaningless comparison anyway. The difference in the mastering will make a huge difference to the apparent quality, far more than the playback format.

This is a very important point. 

I've had quite a few people tell me how terrible MP3s sound and then when I've heard their comparison between the CD and their MP3s the problem is artifacts in their rip. Especially will ultra hot mastered CDs which can easily clip if they aren't ripped carefully.

Jez6345789

I think the real argument is why bother reducing the quality of the music when we now have cheap technology and storage that will let us listen to lossless. To me Kickstarter is an easy way to pick up news and promotion for the idea/ product. Neil is just a long for the ride.

Gagaryn

Jez6345789 said:

I think the real argument is why bother reducing the quality of the music when we now have cheap technology and storage that will let us listen to lossless. 

This! (Carefully avoiding the argument about whether CD quality is actually good enough!!)

EricTheWeary

Anybody looking at this discussion cause they think it says Porno?

No? Good. Just testing.

If Windows and other mega fecking companies can't get the world to choose their mp3 players over an iPod/ Phone/Pad not really sure what sway Mr Young is going to have whatever the quality.  Would I buy a Pono to plug my little ear bud things into for sitting on the bus? No.  

johnnyurq

I misred it as Pony @EricTheWeary so please lets not mash up our two mistakes to make an even scarier one.
:-O

ICBM

Jez6345789 said:

I think the real argument is why bother reducing the quality of the music when we now have cheap technology and storage that will let us listen to lossless.

Because lossless takes up far more storage space, and capacity rather than quality is more important to a large section of the market. Until they start making terabyte-size iPods, I'll keep using mp3... and 128kbps at that. I couldn't fit my whole music library onto my iPod even at 192.

EricTheWeary

johnnyurq said:

I misred it as Pony @EricTheWeary so please lets not mash up our two mistakes to make an even scarier one.
:-O

I'm now thinking about a young Jenny Aguter in Equus. I'm now thinking about Equus :-<

Skipped

My stance would be that we just let people listen to whatever they want. 
I am listening to half a dozen Donald Fagan and Steely Dan Albums in 24/192 Flac format through a pretty decent Meridian/Linn rig. I don't know if the 9000kbps is transferring itself to my ears. I just know it sounds very good. I don't want to analyse anything, I just want to enjoy the music. I have noticed that I listen to the whole albums from start to finish, something I did regularly 20 years ago. If this is because the album is remastered - that's fine.

I had a quick look at the Hydrogenaudio forums. If you post in there that you have bought an amp and you really like the way it sounds, several people (including forum moderators) will jump on you asking you to quantify the statement , or edit the post, or leave.
Let's not go there.
If a forum member here buys a Boutique PAF style pickup and posts a few words about what he has noticed when he  compares it to the the Boutique PAF style pickup that he removed from his guitar 10 minutes ago....I will read what he has to say with great interest. And compare his thoughts with comments about the same product from other forum members. And this may or may not influence my decision to give that pickup a try one day.

I like our forum a lot.
I have no plans to become a member of hydrogenaudio forums.

chrispy108

ICBM said:

An iPod Classic (and probably the other models) can play back full CD-quality AIFF or WAV files too - true, only via the headphone socket, unless you link it to a computer. OK, this can go higher, and has a dedicated 'hi-fi' analogue output 

You can get "line out" from the dock connector with a cheap cable. I've no idea if it's "better", people normally say it's cleaner as it doesn't go via the headphone amp.

Drew_fx said:

Rocker;262056" said:

With respect @monquixote it does. And the degree surprised even me. I heard the hi-res Rolling Stones Grrrrrrr album at a hi-fi dealers showroom recently. By chance I had a few Stones songs ripped uncompressed to a USB stick with me. The difference was obvious after five seconds listening.... Even the early recordings sounded better.

)

We already know your stance on facts and actual science from the windfarms thread.

Early recordings sounding better? LOL!!! Yeah right.

Well, and from the thread were he claimed his expensive cables let more of the emotion from the music through

Fretwired

Skipped said:

I am listening to half a dozen Donald Fagan and Steely Dan Albums in 24/192 Flac format through a pretty decent Meridian/Linn rig.

@Skipped .. may I ask where you got those from?

chrispy108

@Skipped I see your points about a forum becoming too fussy, but at the same time, if everyone just says "I've bought this, I like it because I do" there isn't going to be much discussion is there?

Surely it's fair enough for that forum to ask you to say a bit about why you like something and how it compares to what else you've got?

Skipped

Fretwired said:

Skipped said:

I am listening to half a dozen Donald Fagan and Steely Dan Albums in 24/192 Flac format through a pretty decent Meridian/Linn rig.

@Skipped .. may I ask where you got those from?

Usenet.
I have taken the view that I have already bought these albums 3 times! At full price.  (Vinyl, Cd, Remastered Cd). Some other person has coined this POV as a Non Guilt Download. If anyone thinks that is still wrong - that's fine.

ICBM

chrispy108 said:

You can get "line out" from the dock connector with a cheap cable. I've no idea if it's "better", people normally say it's cleaner as it doesn't go via the headphone amp.

I'll have to look into that, thanks! Although to be honest I normally only ever use it via the headphone socket at the shop, and the quality of the playback system probably renders the difference irrelevant...

Drew_TNBD

I can't stand the transient smearing you get with a 128k mp3. But 320k I don't mind. I prefer FLAC if I can get it.