What’s happened to the neck.

ICBM

WezV said:

But would you expect glue to seep that far without any external damage to the finish.

Yes. PRS finishes separate from the wood just like that if there’s shock damage or a dent over a wide area. That would allow the glue to penetrate under the pressure of the joint being clamped.

If nothing else, the colour and opaqueness is *exactly* that of dried Titebond and not just lifted finish.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

Philly_Q

I'm not claiming to have an alternative explanation, but it looks similar to "Hameritis" which was quite well known on Hamer guitars.  I haven't seen it on a PRS but I think they do occasionally have problems with finish lifting around the edges of the fretboard?

grappagreen

Return it and get your money back. You might choose to sell it at some point down the line..

p90fool

That's had a knock, and a big one too. Unless it was less than half the going rate, don't risk it. 

chris78

The seller is claiming it was like that when it left the factory and claiming he’s the first owner. As said, clearly he was keen to avoid showing it in his listing. 

I’d made a decision to not buy new guitars as I keep losing a fortune when I flip. This reminds me why buying used is a total lottery.

My original thought was exactly the same as @ICBM . It looks like glue to me, but I will bow to PRS superior knowledge of their own product. Either way, the seller hasn’t exactly been open about it.

shaunyshaun1234

If it was like that from the factory, which I very much doubt, then the seller has been purposely deceptive about it. 

It's a very expensive second hand guitar to not disclose something like that on the listing. Based on this alone I would be either trying to get some money back and keeping the guitar or returning for a full refund.

Johnw84

The fact is, the seller has admitted he knew that discolouration was there and omitted it from his description and pictures. It would have put me off bidding (unless it was a bargain price). Regardless of whether or not it came from the factory like that, it's the sellers responsibility to disclose the full and accurate truth about the product. 

It could be that it got a bump on the way to the seller when he bought it brand new and that he did genuinely receive it like this, but it should still be stated and shown in pictures for potential buyers to decide if it's a problem.

skunkwerx

Get a full refund and be shot of it my man. 

Strangefan

I'm going to go against contrary opinion here, I had a studio with the v12 finish great guitar but after a while it did start to flake and looked just like the pics, obviously it is unacceptable to sell like that but that heel does not look like a repair to me. The early v12 finish was well known to do this. 

WezV

Philly_Q said:

I'm not claiming to have an alternative explanation, but it looks similar to "Hameritis" which was quite well known on Hamer guitars.  I haven't seen it on a PRS but I think they do occasionally have problems with finish lifting around the edges of the fretboard?

Exactly, some finishes can look a lot whiter than you would expect when they seperate.

ICBM said:

WezV said:

But would you expect glue to seep that far without any external damage to the finish.

Yes. PRS finishes separate from the wood just like that if there’s shock damage or a dent over a wide area. That would allow the glue to penetrate under the pressure of the joint being clamped.

If nothing else, the colour and opaqueness is *exactly* that of dried Titebond and not just lifted finish.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

If you are clamping hard enough for titebond to be forced that far past the neck join through a hairline separation, you are clamping far too hard.

I could accept it as a result thinned titebond injected in, but not ordinary titebond from ordinary clamping pressure.

I totally agree it's worth ruling out a reset, but it is easily done by checking under the neck pickup.  I expect to see a similar creamy line with unbroken finish

Strangefan said:

I'm going to go against contrary opinion here, I had a studio with the v12 finish great guitar but after a while it did start to flake and looked just like the pics, obviously it is unacceptable to sell like that but that heel does not look like a repair to me. The early v12 finish was well known to do this. 

 PRS knew it was that within minutes. I expect they see more of these than anyone.



Essentially the underneath of the finish is textured like the wood/filler it covered.  When it separates it becomes opaque like frosted glass.   The addition of small amounts of grain fibres/filler can discolour it so it looks creamy

Henrytwang

Looks like a finish defect, I’ve seen it on other guitars. I’ve never owned an American PRS but I have had lots of Korean SE models over the years and never had a problem like that but I guess no manufacturer is completely immune for this sort of thing. In this case the seller should have disclosed the problem, it’ll certainly effect the resale value.

chris78

I really appreciate all the input into this thread and the views. I don't think it's going to be easy to get anywhere with the seller, but assuming I did want to keep the guitar (I've not made up my mind) what do people think its worth? Its a 2013 Paul's guitar. My rough guesstimate would be £2500-2700 without the neck/finish issue?

WezV

chris78 said:

I really appreciate all the input into this thread and the views. I don't think it's going to be easy to get anywhere with the seller, but assuming I did want to keep the guitar (I've not made up my mind) what do people think its worth? Its a 2013 Paul's guitar. My rough guesstimate would be £2500-2700 without the neck/finish issue?

You need to verify the issue, so if you are keeping it have a peek under the neck pickup.

As it is, you do have to assume the worst when valuing.  The worst is a repaired neck break,  -30%.  Maybe more on a PRS.  

Assuming it is just a finish issue, it's still not an easy fix without a refinish.   It's still likely going to take 20% off the value after that is done well.  Ideally you want a PRS approved refin  to protect value


The seller doesn't have a leg to stand on.  Unless they are offering a big chunk off, get eBay to resolve it

Fishboy7

I don't think the seller has much choice about it if you decide to return.  Stuff gets returned for way more spurious stuff than that.  

ICBM

chris78 said:

I really appreciate all the input into this thread and the views. I don't think it's going to be easy to get anywhere with the seller, but assuming I did want to keep the guitar (I've not made up my mind) what do people think its worth? Its a 2013 Paul's guitar. My rough guesstimate would be £2500-2700 without the neck/finish issue?

You should be able to force a refund if the seller won't agree to it - that unquestionably falls under 'significantly not as described', however it happened and whether or not it's been repaired.

I don't know how much these are worth, but I would want something substantial like a third off the price - not because the problem is actually that bad, but because it massively affects the potential resale value - and the only way to fix it is to refinish it, which also similarly affects the value... Catch-22.

If the seller won't agree to that, insist on a full refund.

In my opinion.

sawyer

Get a refund. Anything you save now will cost tenfold in the future, when you find you can't live with it, and try and sell it on.

DefaultM

If you keep it you're not going to be able to sell it at a later date without losing a lot of money. Which is exactly why he's not shown it in his sale.
If it was normal and came out the factory like that he would show it.

I've mentioned on here a few times about the guy who called me to cancel a sale because he'd noticed a pin prick size impression in the lacquer of a Custom 24. I'd owned it for a year to that point and never even noticed, but ended up having to knock another £100 off to get it sold to someone else.

Epsilon

Unfortunately finish problems seem to affect PRS values much more than other guitars. I agree that eBay will definitely side with you on a return here as it wasn't disclosed and no pictures showed the damage. You have written evidence from the manufacturer that this is not normal (even if it is only aesthetic). 

DefaultM

Found the pic. Can still remember the conversation.

"I was looking at the photos and I've noticed what might be a mark on the top of the guitar. Can you see it?"
"Hmm no but the guitars upstairs so one minute"
"okay..."
"Oh yes actually you're right. There's a very small impression in the lacquer maybe the size of a pin head"
"oh no its there? I thought maybe it was dust"

So I'm thinking he wants a discount, and I need the money so I offer him one.

"No, I can't. I'm so sorry"
"are you sure? It's right under where your arm will be when you play it. No one will ever see".
"The problem is that my other one is perfect, and I just know that when they're next to each other on the stands it will bother me".

http://i.imgur.com/wtDEj3J.jpg

stonevibe

Refund, as you will always doubt the guitar's integrity and if you did sell will be hard to move on.