Why isn’t there a measurement standard for necks?

drofluf

darius said:

drofluf said:

darius said:

I'm curious to know how you think it may be possible.

OK, well. Someone has decided necks are C's and D's and U's and V's so they already have vague unhelpful standard descriptions. Every guitar manufacturer has decided their own version of neck shape description. Why not define an international standard C, D, U, V blah blah, with actual dimensions. Why does the fingerboard get the (apparently) impossible to define shape dimension but not the neck?

Because there are too many variables in a complex neck shape to present in a simple form that an average player would understand. Below are some “possible” neck shapes. How would you condense those into a set of numbers. If we took a simple arc of a circle we have the radius and the angle of the segment.  But neck shapes are not that simple!

I could dimension every single one of your design drawings, make them and measure them to show conformance within a micron.

That’s the easy bit now present it in a “standard” format that your average player can intepret (but please interpolate where my pencil slipped as I suspect that some of my “designs” may be unplayable:) ) that’s the challenge I think. 

Danielsguitars

I carve my necks very close to spec and finish it off when I string it up because it feels totally different without strings, one neck I thought might be too slim turned out to be perfect when I strung it up

All my necks are based on the same similar specs, it's all a variation on a theme for me

6StringStrummer

In a few years we will all have VR and that will resolve this question,  you will have Gloves that let your hand feel the neck on every guitar in the shop when you are sitting at your PC/phone...… Yes it will happen and you all know it...………. for now you will need to nip down to the shop and put your mitts on each guitar.

fretfinder

I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do a chart like this one from the Fender Custom Shop. Warmoth do something similar and maybe some others. I find this a very helpful guide and if you’ve tried a few different shapes you get to know which ones you might like or dislike. Ultimately there’s nothing like getting a guitar in the hand obviously, because there can be small variations, but with so many guitar sales being remote/online these days any kind of guide like this is invaluable imho.

https://i.imgur.com/EAIE1Ah.jpg

stickyfiddle

fretfinder said:

I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do a chart like this one from the Fender Custom Shop. Warmoth do something similar and maybe some others. I find this a very helpful guide and if you’ve tried a few different shapes you get to know which ones you might like or dislike. Ultimately there’s nothing like getting a guitar in the hand obviously, because there can be small variations, but with so many guitar sales being remote/online these days any kind of guide like this is invaluable imho.

https://i.imgur.com/EAIE1Ah.jpg

Yep, this. Just giving numbers is virtually meaningless, but this is the closest thing you'll ever get to a visual guide to what a neck might feel like, and they could easily put the appropriate picture on ever model's listing page if they wanted, with a footnote that says "because all our products are finished by hand there may be some variation yada yada etc"

terada

stickyfiddle said:

fretfinder said:

I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do a chart like this one from the Fender Custom Shop. Warmoth do something similar and maybe some others. I find this a very helpful guide and if you’ve tried a few different shapes you get to know which ones you might like or dislike. Ultimately there’s nothing like getting a guitar in the hand obviously, because there can be small variations, but with so many guitar sales being remote/online these days any kind of guide like this is invaluable imho.

https://i.imgur.com/EAIE1Ah.jpg

Yep, this. Just giving numbers is virtually meaningless, but this is the closest thing you'll ever get to a visual guide to what a neck might feel like, and they could easily put the appropriate picture on ever model's listing page if they wanted, with a footnote that says "because all our products are finished by hand there may be some variation yada yada etc"

Perhaps then if all manufacturers got in the habit of listing this sort of diagram, with the inner shape a standardised size so that the intended neck profile could be compared across brands, that could be a potential solution?

fretfinder

terada said:

stickyfiddle said:

fretfinder said:

I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do a chart like this one from the Fender Custom Shop. Warmoth do something similar and maybe some others. I find this a very helpful guide and if you’ve tried a few different shapes you get to know which ones you might like or dislike. Ultimately there’s nothing like getting a guitar in the hand obviously, because there can be small variations, but with so many guitar sales being remote/online these days any kind of guide like this is invaluable imho.

https://i.imgur.com/EAIE1Ah.jpg

Yep, this. Just giving numbers is virtually meaningless, but this is the closest thing you'll ever get to a visual guide to what a neck might feel like, and they could easily put the appropriate picture on ever model's listing page if they wanted, with a footnote that says "because all our products are finished by hand there may be some variation yada yada etc"

Perhaps then if all manufacturers got in the habit of listing this sort of diagram, with the inner shape a standardised size so that the intended neck profile could be compared across brands, that could be a potential solution?

In the Fender diagram the inner shape/dimension is at the first fret and the outer is at the twelfth fret. Warmoth do have a diagram on their website showing how their different neck shapes compare with their ‘standard thin’ profile. I’m not sure how that would work across different manufacturers though, as I suspect they’d all have a different idea of what the ‘standard’ neck shape is.  

RaymondLin

There is a measurement for boobs and there should be a measurement for guitar necks.  Sure it won't tell the whole story but it's a start. 

Or even the depth of the neck at the 1st, 7th and 15th.  That will give you an idea with a number how deep it is. Then perhaps using V or U shape to describe how its contoured.

fretfinder

RaymondLin said: Or even the depth of the neck at the 1st, 7th and 15th.  That will give you an idea with a number how deep it is.

Depth at the 1st and 12th is the convention, so far as there is one. 

WezV

fretfinder said:

RaymondLin said: Or even the depth of the neck at the 1st, 7th and 15th.  That will give you an idea with a number how deep it is.

Depth at the 1st and 12th is the convention, so far as there is one. 

Because 15th fret on a Les Paul is past the transition to neck heel... A depth measurement there won't tell you much about the neck profile

RaymondLin

WezV said:

fretfinder said:

RaymondLin said: Or even the depth of the neck at the 1st, 7th and 15th.  That will give you an idea with a number how deep it is.

Depth at the 1st and 12th is the convention, so far as there is one. 

Because 15th fret on a Les Paul is past the transition to neck heel... A depth measurement there won't tell you much about the neck profile

Then 1, 5 and 12. 

terada

fretfinder said:

terada said:

stickyfiddle said:

fretfinder said:

I don’t know why more manufacturers don’t do a chart like this one from the Fender Custom Shop. Warmoth do something similar and maybe some others. I find this a very helpful guide and if you’ve tried a few different shapes you get to know which ones you might like or dislike. Ultimately there’s nothing like getting a guitar in the hand obviously, because there can be small variations, but with so many guitar sales being remote/online these days any kind of guide like this is invaluable imho.

https://i.imgur.com/EAIE1Ah.jpg

Yep, this. Just giving numbers is virtually meaningless, but this is the closest thing you'll ever get to a visual guide to what a neck might feel like, and they could easily put the appropriate picture on ever model's listing page if they wanted, with a footnote that says "because all our products are finished by hand there may be some variation yada yada etc"

Perhaps then if all manufacturers got in the habit of listing this sort of diagram, with the inner shape a standardised size so that the intended neck profile could be compared across brands, that could be a potential solution?

In the Fender diagram the inner shape/dimension is at the first fret and the outer is at the twelfth fret. Warmoth do have a diagram on their website showing how their different neck shapes compare with their ‘standard thin’ profile. I’m not sure how that would work across different manufacturers though, as I suspect they’d all have a different idea of what the ‘standard’ neck shape is.  

Of course it is! Thanks for pointing it out (can't believe I didn't realise!  ) 

phil_b

if you shape a neck by hand rather than a cnc cut then they are not going to be the same

I guess in the past it did not matter because you would have the guitar in your hands before you bought it.

it is only with internet shopping people now buy guitars based on photos descriptions and reviews

jonnyburgo

I like em like my women, skinny or a nice handful. Theres likely to be a lot of gurning and a rather desultory performance with both. Then I'll blame it on a nut problem or summert probably. 

Kittyfrisk

RaymondLin said:

There is a measurement for boobs and there should be a measurement for guitar necks.  Sure it won't tell the whole story but it's a start. 

Or even the depth of the neck at the 1st, 7th and 15th.  That will give you an idea with a number how deep it is. Then perhaps using V or U shape to describe how its contoured.

When I was a lad & political correctness wasn't such a thing, we had a measurement for chest based items.
The British Standard Handful...

rossi

Its like this .You start out shaping a U but some is talking to you as you do it  and you rip it down too far so it then becomes a  fat C.Someone  else drops it and puts a dent in it so it suddenly it gets turned into a chunky V ..Its not that well shaped so its turned into a slim C  and put on a guitar .Neck saved ,money saved ,someone will love it ,someone else will hate it ,nothing lost.

Lodious

6StringStrummer said:

In a few years we will all have VR and that will resolve this question,  you will have Gloves that let your hand feel the neck on every guitar in the shop when you are sitting at your PC/phone...… Yes it will happen and you all know it...………. for now you will need to nip down to the shop and put your mitts on each guitar.

To be fair, once they virtualize Christina Hendricks, who's gonna be playing guitar?

richardhomer

Typical that we should leave the EU just as their Neck Standards Directive came into force.....