PSA: Yamaha L-series MIJ model blowout at Yamaha Music London

Whitecat

danishbacon said:

A very keenly priced ll36 is up for sale

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266209730153?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zGuEs6RfRqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=inbbS_mWTY2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Older one so might not be ARE (as in, no torrefied top) - but dammit if that isn’t a perfect bit of spruce on the top either way. 

tony99

Whitecat said:

danishbacon said:

A very keenly priced ll36 is up for sale

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266209730153?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zGuEs6RfRqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=inbbS_mWTY2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Older one so might not be ARE (as in, no torrefied top) - but dammit if that isn’t a perfect bit of spruce on the top either way. 

D lo you know when they started with the ARE? I find conflicting info online

Whitecat

tony99 said:

Whitecat said:

danishbacon said:

A very keenly priced ll36 is up for sale

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266209730153?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zGuEs6RfRqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=inbbS_mWTY2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Older one so might not be ARE (as in, no torrefied top) - but dammit if that isn’t a perfect bit of spruce on the top either way. 

D lo you know when they started with the ARE? I find conflicting info online

ARE was developed in 2008 but didn’t appear on the L-series until 2014. 

goldtop

Greetings from Tokyo, where my search for a MIJ Yamaha is not going that well. Accounting for tax deduction here (10%) and then tax to be paid at Heathrow (around 23%, I estimate), L-series guitars are hardly cheaper than in the UK.

We went to the Yamaha store in Ginza to ask about where the  various models were actually made, and the sales assistant really wanted to avoid a direct answer. But reading between the lines about what she said and how they are displayed, the 16 is definitely MIC, the 26 is probably built in China and just finished in Japan and only the 36-86 models are made from raw wood in Japan. Also, the FG5/FS5 are also just finished in Japan.

Yes, there’s an LL86, at a cool 1,980,000 Yen - almost 4x the price of the LS56.  

So all we bought were a pair of nicely customised cappuccinos in their coffee shop

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8ll7a34yiq4twn/IMG_0839.JPG

Meanwhile, I can see some olfder JDM models: LL23J, LL33J on www.j-guitar.com dealers. Some LL53, too, but they seem to sell as soon as they are listed. All of those are older and MIJ, but have ‘jacaranda’ = Brazilian rosewood, and might be a CITES risk for me.

Still got 9 days here…

tony99

Whitecat said:

tony99 said:

Whitecat said:

danishbacon said:

A very keenly priced ll36 is up for sale

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266209730153?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zGuEs6RfRqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=inbbS_mWTY2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Older one so might not be ARE (as in, no torrefied top) - but dammit if that isn’t a perfect bit of spruce on the top either way. 

D lo you know when they started with the ARE? I find conflicting info online

ARE was developed in 2008 but didn’t appear on the L-series until 2014. 

Any idea when they started using it on the A series?

Whitecat

tony99 said:

Whitecat said:

tony99 said:

Whitecat said:

danishbacon said:

A very keenly priced ll36 is up for sale

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266209730153?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zGuEs6RfRqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=inbbS_mWTY2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Older one so might not be ARE (as in, no torrefied top) - but dammit if that isn’t a perfect bit of spruce on the top either way. 

D lo you know when they started with the ARE? I find conflicting info online

ARE was developed in 2008 but didn’t appear on the L-series until 2014. 

Any idea when they started using it on the A series?

2017. 

tony99

Whitecat said:

tony99 said:

Whitecat said:

tony99 said:

Whitecat said:

danishbacon said:

A very keenly priced ll36 is up for sale

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266209730153?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=zGuEs6RfRqm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=inbbS_mWTY2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Older one so might not be ARE (as in, no torrefied top) - but dammit if that isn’t a perfect bit of spruce on the top either way. 

D lo you know when they started with the ARE? I find conflicting info online

ARE was developed in 2008 but didn’t appear on the L-series until 2014. 

Any idea when they started using it on the A series?

2017. 

That's really helpful, cheers

Dave_Mc

goldtop said:

Greetings from Tokyo, where my search for a MIJ Yamaha is not going that well. Accounting for tax deduction here (10%) and then tax to be paid at Heathrow (around 23%, I estimate), L-series guitars are hardly cheaper than in the UK.

We went to the Yamaha store in Ginza to ask about where the  various models were actually made, and the sales assistant really wanted to avoid a direct answer. But reading between the lines about what she said and how they are displayed, the 16 is definitely MIC, the 26 is probably built in China and just finished in Japan and only the 36-86 models are made from raw wood in Japan. Also, the FG5/FS5 are also just finished in Japan.

Yes, there’s an LL86, at a cool 1,980,000 Yen - almost 4x the price of the LS56.  

So all we bought were a pair of nicely customised cappuccinos in their coffee shop

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8ll7a34yiq4twn/IMG_0839.JPG

Meanwhile, I can see some olfder JDM models: LL23J, LL33J on www.j-guitar.com dealers. Some LL53, too, but they seem to sell as soon as they are listed. All of those are older and MIJ, but have ‘jacaranda’ = Brazilian rosewood, and might be a CITES risk for me.

Still got 9 days here…

Hope you're enjoying your trip  

That's some excellent info there, thanks very much I remember a while back there was a thread where those FG-5s came up, and there was some discussion as to whether they'd be genuinely MIJ or just finished off in Japan at that price-point. Bit like Edwardses were (or still are?). It's a bit cheeky because they very much imply (if not outright say- some dealers certainly outright say on their websites, I just looked!) that they're completely made in Japan. By their finest luthiers, no less. Hmmm.

I was hoping the cappucinos would have instruments drawn in them before I clicked the link! 

danishbacon

goldtop said:

But reading between the lines about what she said and how they are displayed, the 16 is definitely MIC, the 26 is probably built in China and just finished in Japan and only the 36-86 models are made from raw wood in Japan. Also, the FG5/FS5 are also just finished in Japan.

Hope you're enjoying the trip!

Would be curious to hear more about this. The LS26 and LJ26 I have had were signed by Hiroshi Sakurai and state made in Japan on the label, whereas the LS16s are 'made in china'

goldtop

danishbacon said:

goldtop said:

But reading between the lines about what she said and how they are displayed, the 16 is definitely MIC, the 26 is probably built in China and just finished in Japan and only the 36-86 models are made from raw wood in Japan. Also, the FG5/FS5 are also just finished in Japan.

Hope you're enjoying the trip!

Would be curious to hear more about this. The LS26 and LJ26 I have had were signed by Hiroshi Sakurai and state made in Japan on the label, whereas the LS16s are 'made in china'

Yes, I can only say “probably”. Because when I asked specifically about the 26, after talking about the 56 and 86, and her agreeing that the 16 in the display case was MIC, she reverted to ‘we make our instruments in a variety of countries’. For all discussion about whether wood is cut in China and shipped to Japan for skilled luthier assembly, or sent as glued-up guitars to be finished she said we should contact Hamamatsu. She was super polite but I don’t think that I was the first to ask, and it seemed to be a well-rehearsed line.

one thing that you also see in j-guitar adverts is dealers saying something like ‘pure domestic manufacture’, which I take as a reference to there being both properly Japanese made and mixed manufacture Yamaha guitars.

I really wish it was possible to get a straight answer. I will try again in Ochanimizu over the next few days. For sure, the dealers know, but whether they will say…

Edited to add: I just saw that the Hiroshi Sakurai signature also appears on 16 models. 

https://www.j-guitar.com/products/detail.php?id=1125057

goldtop

There’s the 86. Apart from the extra abalone everywhere and the fretboard chrysanthemum inlays I’m not sure what you get for £12500.

Here’s a link to a rather enthusiastic Japanese review:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-j6KZe7t77Y

danishbacon

goldtop said:

danishbacon said:

goldtop said:

But reading between the lines about what she said and how they are displayed, the 16 is definitely MIC, the 26 is probably built in China and just finished in Japan and only the 36-86 models are made from raw wood in Japan. Also, the FG5/FS5 are also just finished in Japan.

Hope you're enjoying the trip!

Would be curious to hear more about this. The LS26 and LJ26 I have had were signed by Hiroshi Sakurai and state made in Japan on the label, whereas the LS16s are 'made in china'

Yes, I can only say “probably”. Because when I asked specifically about the 26, after talking about the 56 and 86, and her agreeing that the 16 in the display case was MIC, she reverted to ‘we make our instruments in a variety of countries’. For all discussion about whether wood is cut in China and shipped to Japan for skilled luthier assembly, or sent as glued-up guitars to be finished she said we should contact Hamamatsu. She was super polite but I don’t think that I was the first to ask, and it seemed to be a well-rehearsed line.

one thing that you also see in j-guitar adverts is dealers saying something like ‘pure domestic manufacture’, which I take as a reference to there being both properly Japanese made and mixed manufacture Yamaha guitars.

I really wish it was possible to get a straight answer. I will try again in Ochanimizu over the next few days. For sure, the dealers know, but whether they will say…

Edited to add: I just saw that the Hiroshi Sakurai signature also appears on 16 models. 

https://www.j-guitar.com/products/detail.php?id=1125057

Thanks for that, they do indeed make instruments in China, Japan, Indonesia, probably elsewhere too. 

I had a look at J guitar and for the LS-26 this is what they had to say:

The LJ-26, which is made purely in Japan with urethane coating, gloss finish, and all-over single plate specification, is a bargain model that can not be imitated by other companies using Ingleman spruce from Canada, which is known for its high class among spruce on the top. Refined and well-balanced sound, bass that echoes powerfully even with finger picking obtained from the wide bottom. It is a lifelong handmade guitar that Japan is proud of, carefully incorporated in every detail.

https://www.j-guitar.com/products/detail.php?id=1069114

That, coupled with the fact that the 26 is significantly more expensive than the 16 and all literature indicating the 26+ are made in Japan seems to point to the fact that the 26 is indeed made in Japan. On any occasion, I have contacted Hamamatsu before and will try again and see if I can get a more definitive answer. I am curious about these academic things. 

On a separate note. That 86 is stunning but what an eyewatering pricetag. 

Whitecat

Going OT here but this eve-of-NAMM announcement is super fascinating. 

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/guitars_basses/ac_guitars/fg_series/fg_9/index.html

danishbacon

Whitecat said:

Going OT here but this eve-of-NAMM announcement is super fascinating. 

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/guitars_basses/ac_guitars/fg_series/fg_9/index.html

These look beautiful

chor808

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/yamaha-fg9-acoustics

goldtop

Interesting development. All of the Yamaha PR I see has the L=luxury claim, and in the Ginza store the FG range is not treated as reverently.

And today the FG9s started showing up on Japanese listings for pre-order. But at the same street price as the LL56! Which would leave scope for an FG7 at around the LL36 price.

goldtop

danishbacon said:

goldtop said:

danishbacon said:

goldtop said:

But reading between the lines about what she said and how they are displayed, the 16 is definitely MIC, the 26 is probably built in China and just finished in Japan and only the 36-86 models are made from raw wood in Japan. Also, the FG5/FS5 are also just finished in Japan.

Hope you're enjoying the trip!

Would be curious to hear more about this. The LS26 and LJ26 I have had were signed by Hiroshi Sakurai and state made in Japan on the label, whereas the LS16s are 'made in china'

Yes, I can only say “probably”. Because when I asked specifically about the 26, after talking about the 56 and 86, and her agreeing that the 16 in the display case was MIC, she reverted to ‘we make our instruments in a variety of countries’. For all discussion about whether wood is cut in China and shipped to Japan for skilled luthier assembly, or sent as glued-up guitars to be finished she said we should contact Hamamatsu. She was super polite but I don’t think that I was the first to ask, and it seemed to be a well-rehearsed line.

one thing that you also see in j-guitar adverts is dealers saying something like ‘pure domestic manufacture’, which I take as a reference to there being both properly Japanese made and mixed manufacture Yamaha guitars.

I really wish it was possible to get a straight answer. I will try again in Ochanimizu over the next few days. For sure, the dealers know, but whether they will say…

Edited to add: I just saw that the Hiroshi Sakurai signature also appears on 16 models. 

https://www.j-guitar.com/products/detail.php?id=1125057

Thanks for that, they do indeed make instruments in China, Japan, Indonesia, probably elsewhere too. 

I had a look at J guitar and for the LS-26 this is what they had to say:

The LJ-26, which is made purely in Japan with urethane coating, gloss finish, and all-over single plate specification, is a bargain model that can not be imitated by other companies using Ingleman spruce from Canada, which is known for its high class among spruce on the top. Refined and well-balanced sound, bass that echoes powerfully even with finger picking obtained from the wide bottom. It is a lifelong handmade guitar that Japan is proud of, carefully incorporated in every detail.

https://www.j-guitar.com/products/detail.php?id=1069114

That, coupled with the fact that the 26 is significantly more expensive than the 16 and all literature indicating the 26+ are made in Japan seems to point to the fact that the 26 is indeed made in Japan. On any occasion, I have contacted Hamamatsu before and will try again and see if I can get a more definitive answer. I am curious about these academic things. 

On a separate note. That 86 is stunning but what an eyewatering pricetag. 

At last, after asking in 4 Ochanimizu shops and getting nowhere, I got a straight answer from Mr S: Yamaha’s 26 models are, indeed, definitely built in Japan. We’d already spoken about the FG5, and he was open that they are assembled in Japan, but significant production work is done in China. He didn’t offer detail, and he later side-stepped my Qs about an FG7 or and FS9.

So the short story is that the 26 is MIJ, and it’s basically a 36 except for Indonesian rosewood back and sides, poly finish, different tuners and less bling.

I did have a look at a lot of secondhand 90s and 00s L series. Many had a lot of cloudiness in the finish, just like an 80s black SG2000 I used to have. Might that be due to Japan’s climate?

Whitecat

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/px230729410642006--yamaha-ll36are-handcrafted-acoustic-guitar-pre-owned

wonder how long this will last

Kateskogs

I have a few L series guitars from the 1990s. One of my faves is the LL-11. I was quite disappointed with an LL-36 that I tried at an auction a few years ago, but my LL-11 satisfies what I love in a acoustic. 

Soupman

@Whitecat that looks very nice!
However it will be a 44mm nut, and at that price there's a lot of choice.....