Guitar vs Amps Prices - Guitar Manufacturers are Taking the Mickey

bananaman

So, take a brand new Marshall JVM410h. It contains hundreds of diverse components, some of them very complex and expensive and requiring insanely expensive machinery to make. It required very, very clever people on very good wages to design and prototype it, expensive machinery and staff to make it, and it has to meet all sorts of safety standards all over the world. There's no way on earth that you could build your own. It costs about £1400.

Now take brand new Fender Masterbuilt Strat. It's a couple of pieces of wood and small amounts of plastic and metal. None of the components are at all expensive, or need any development as they've been around for 60 years pretty much unchanged. Nor do they take a lot of brain power to make or assemble. You could easily build your own, and plenty of people do. Price: £8k upwards.

F*ck off!!!!!

RaymondLin

The angle they are selling guitar is that they are pieces of art.  With art there is no ceiling, with engineering there is a visible ceiling from components to wages to the argument of scale of economy.

Fender’s PR department is doing a very good job selling masterbuilt as a one off pieces of art, they are selling a very expensive relic job essentially if one wants to be blunt.

tony99

I reckon if you offer £7950 they'd think about it

bananaman

RaymondLin said:

The angle they are selling guitar is that they are pieces of art.  With art there is no ceiling, with engineering there is a visible ceiling from components to wages to the argument of scale of economy.

Fender’s PR department is doing a very good job selling masterbuilt as a one off pieces of art, they are selling a very expensive relic job essentially if one wants to be blunt.

There must be hundreds (thousands?) of them that are pretty much exactly the same. I think that probably limits their appeal as art, but I might well be wrong, as I know bugger all about art.

tony99

bananaman said:

RaymondLin said:

The angle they are selling guitar is that they are pieces of art.  With art there is no ceiling, with engineering there is a visible ceiling from components to wages to the argument of scale of economy.

Fender’s PR department is doing a very good job selling masterbuilt as a one off pieces of art, they are selling a very expensive relic job essentially if one wants to be blunt.

There must be hundreds (thousands?) of them that are pretty much exactly the same. I think that probably limits their appeal as art, but I might well be wrong, as I know bugger all about art.

I'd say you might've hit the nail on the head in terms of artistic merit, certainly in the eyes of some people anyway. Walter Benjamin for one;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_Mechanical_Reproduction

RaymondLin

bananaman said:

RaymondLin said:

The angle they are selling guitar is that they are pieces of art.  With art there is no ceiling, with engineering there is a visible ceiling from components to wages to the argument of scale of economy.

Fender’s PR department is doing a very good job selling masterbuilt as a one off pieces of art, they are selling a very expensive relic job essentially if one wants to be blunt.

There must be hundreds (thousands?) of them that are pretty much exactly the same. I think that probably limits their appeal as art, but I might well be wrong, as I know bugger all about art.

But the PR lead you to believe that they are all individually,“tastefully” relic.

we all know some are stencilled, some just don’t want to admit it.  

They are good guitars no doubt but the PR department should get the credit.

Whitecat

The price of anything in this world is never related to how much it costs to make. 

scrumhalf

Why does they charge so much for a Masterbuilt Strat?

Why do dogs lick their bollocks?

Same answer: because they can.

Epsilon

I guess there's an argument that each Masterbuilt guitar is truly unique and handbuilt as essentially a custom order. It's true that the R&D costs of amps is a lot higher, but once you've settled on a circuit and have gone into production it's a case of churning out a consistent product in numbers (unless you go in for the handwired custom stuff), so you get greater economies of scale.

I'm not really trying to defend Fender CS prices, as I agree that they are bordering on obscene at the moment. As always there are economic reasons for these things - both in terms of profit margins and the consumer's willingness to pay a given amount for a given product. I think most people would be willing to admit that the aesthetic and artistic appeal of a custom guitar is greater than that of a nice amp, which serves a much more utilitarian function.

bananaman

Whitecat said:

The price of anything in this world is never related to how much it costs to make. 

Yeah I know that. The point is to highlight the comedy value of people ponying up the money for this stuff.

monquixote

Masterbuilt Fenders cost £8k because some people have £8k to spend on a guitar.

That's how premium pricing works.

You have to fit a product to the market demand even if it has no relation to the cost of manufacture.

bananaman

monquixote said:

Masterbuilt Fenders cost £8k because some people have £8k to spend on a guitar.

That's how premium pricing works.

You have to fit a product to the market demand even if it has no relation to the cost of manufacture.

I wasn't looking to start a dry treatise on economics. I know the labour theory of value is bollocks. It still doesn't stop me being amazed that people willing pay those prices. Good on Fender really, but the joke's on the customer.

monquixote

bananaman said:

monquixote said:

Masterbuilt Fenders cost £8k because some people have £8k to spend on a guitar.

That's how premium pricing works.

You have to fit a product to the market demand even if it has no relation to the cost of manufacture.

I wasn't looking to start a dry treatise on economics. I know the labour theory of value is bollocks. It still doesn't stop me being amazed that people willing pay those prices. Good on Fender really, but the joke's on the customer.

Then why mention the cost of manufacture of a JVM?

RaymondLin

Their term Masterbuilt is a very clever label, if it’s call “Tech built” is not the same, they can’t say “hand built” as a lot of it is done by CNC machine but masterbuilt give you lots of leeway.  It also gives an impression that it is the best, all in 1 label.  “Tom Murphy Aged”, who’s Tom Murphy and why do I want it aged?  Masterbuilt, now it can be some 25yr guy who they just promoted and he can earn them the same price bracket as someone who’s been doing it for 30 years.

bananaman

Then why mention the cost of manufacture of a JVM?

Because it's interesting to compare.

bananaman

RaymondLin said:

Their term Masterbuilt is a very clever label, if it’s call “Tech built” is not the same, they can’t say “hand built” as a lot of it is done by CNC machine but masterbuilt give you lots of leeway.  It also gives an impression that it is the best, all in 1 label.  “Tom Murphy Aged”, who’s Tom Murphy and why do I want it aged?  Masterbuilt, now it can be some 25yr guy who they just promoted and he can earn them the same price bracket as someone who’s been doing it for 30 years.

Yep it's just meaningless. I think John Suhr said it best when he said 'All my builders are masterbuilders.' I'm not in the least bit convinced that the masterbuilders carve each body and neck etc. Maybe they should be called master assemblers!

monquixote

bananaman said:

Then why mention the cost of manufacture of a JVM?

Because it's interesting to compare.

Why not compare it with a Lazy J?

bananaman

Because Fender and Marshall are brands that 99.9% of guitarists know about. It would probably have a been a better comparison to compare a Fender amp actually.

artiebear

monquixote said:

bananaman said:

Then why mention the cost of manufacture of a JVM?

Because it's interesting to compare.

Why not compare it with a Lazy J?

Or a Dumble 

chrisj1602

You’ve compared a standard production amp to a Masterbuilt Strat though. Why not compare to a standard production guitar - an American Original Strat is around £1,500, Vintera Strat £800.

dindude

chrisj1602 said:

You’ve compared a standard production amp to a Masterbuilt Strat though. Why not compare to a standard production guitar - an American Original Strat is around £1,500, Vintera Strat £800.

Exactly, compare the Masterbuild to a Two Rock would be a better comparison. 

And a JVM is not that complex, circuit board derived 1950’s technology - it’s not an iPhone.