CONGRATULATIONS! BCD is now gone.

Bridgehouse

Emp_Fab said:

Clearly the argument about behaviour from bcd spilling into the main forum is invalid as it would have caused a major issue before now.  I fear that, as has already been mentioned, shutting down bcd is just going to move the conversations into off-topic, presenting the mods with an even bigger headache.  

You didn’t read the post did you?

It already has caused a major problem when a BCD argument spilt over into the classifieds and resulted in multiple coolerings and post edits and a lot of our time wasted. 

You can fear all you like - the fact remains that no matter how many warnings go out nothing changes in some members behaviour. So we took a subforum away. If there’s a knock on effect, we will deal with that - and deal with it a lot more severely than before. @digitalscream has already said what will happen - anyone creating a thread that would have got moved to BCD for stupidity or crassness etc (rather than because of a personal issue) gets a permanent ban.

Has everyone read that and understood? A permanent ban. 

I’m pretty sure if it spills out then it’ll be a very short lived spill. 

I predict the headache will be brief, followed by much relief from a banhammer pill. 

Bridgehouse

chillidoggy said:

Jimbro66 said:

chillidoggy said:

Fully understand and support the mods decision on BCD.

The only thing I will say is some of the best rants ever were in the ‘Shit That Boils Your Piss’ section, and I’m saddened to think that not only my own efforts, but also those of some of what I consider to be the finest whingers and moaners on the planet will no longer be available for all to enjoy.

I’m not sure that was ever achieved. I saw the posts in that thread, including my own occasional whinges, as Old Man Shouts At Clouds. I can’t imagine anyone else found them enjoyable. No, we’ll just have to go back to whingeing to the missus -  who also takes no notice at all. 

It’s clear I’m not alone due to the popularity of STBYP thread, due to the number of posts in it. I’m not on a one-man mission to reinstate it, but it did provide a relief valve, even if it was shouting at clouds, and a good few laughs with some high quality, and damned intelligent rants from time to time.

Arguably, one of the finest threads courtesy of @Emp_Fab and if STBYP were a physical object, it would be a statue somewhere in South Wales.

Ironic. Your favourite thread, started by the member who caused the thread to disappear for good..

Bridgehouse

Handsome_Chris said:

Emp_Fab said:

Clearly the argument about behaviour from bcd spilling into the main forum is invalid as it would have caused a major issue before now.  I fear that, as has already been mentioned, shutting down bcd is just going to move the conversations into off-topic, presenting the mods with an even bigger headache.  

@Roland , do you ever feel that people can not understand what you have written?

Or bother to read it...

Roland

Handsome_Chris said:

Emp_Fab said:

Clearly the argument about behaviour from bcd spilling into the main forum is invalid as it would have caused a major issue before now.  I fear that, as has already been mentioned, shutting down bcd is just going to move the conversations into off-topic, presenting the mods with an even bigger headache.  

@Roland , do you ever feel that people can not understand what you have written?

Sometimes it’s lack of awareness, sometimes it’s lack of willingness, and sometimes they will treat it as an opportunity to provoke. Care to toss a three sided coin?

Bridgehouse

Roland said:

Handsome_Chris said:

Emp_Fab said:

Clearly the argument about behaviour from bcd spilling into the main forum is invalid as it would have caused a major issue before now.  I fear that, as has already been mentioned, shutting down bcd is just going to move the conversations into off-topic, presenting the mods with an even bigger headache.  

@Roland , do you ever feel that people can not understand what you have written?

Sometimes it’s lack of awareness, sometimes it’s lack of willingness, and sometimes they will treat it as an opportunity to provoke. Care to toss a three sided coin?

Indeed, some members do insist on acting like a thrup’ny bit...

boogieman

Emp_Fab said:

Clearly the argument about behaviour from bcd spilling into the main forum is invalid as it would have caused a major issue before now.  I fear that, as has already been mentioned, shutting down bcd is just going to move the conversations into off-topic, presenting the mods with an even bigger headache.  

Or you could, you know, try not posting threads about felching in the first place. 

Emp_Fab

Bridgehouse said:

chillidoggy said:

Jimbro66 said:

chillidoggy said:

Fully understand and support the mods decision on BCD.

The only thing I will say is some of the best rants ever were in the ‘Shit That Boils Your Piss’ section, and I’m saddened to think that not only my own efforts, but also those of some of what I consider to be the finest whingers and moaners on the planet will no longer be available for all to enjoy.

I’m not sure that was ever achieved. I saw the posts in that thread, including my own occasional whinges, as Old Man Shouts At Clouds. I can’t imagine anyone else found them enjoyable. No, we’ll just have to go back to whingeing to the missus -  who also takes no notice at all. 

It’s clear I’m not alone due to the popularity of STBYP thread, due to the number of posts in it. I’m not on a one-man mission to reinstate it, but it did provide a relief valve, even if it was shouting at clouds, and a good few laughs with some high quality, and damned intelligent rants from time to time.

Arguably, one of the finest threads courtesy of @Emp_Fab and if STBYP were a physical object, it would be a statue somewhere in South Wales.

Ironic. Your favourite thread, started by the member who caused the thread to disappear for good..

For the umpteenth time, it wasn't my thread!!  I have stated several times that the thread was started by someone else on MR.  I merely carried it over from there.  I had never heard the expression "boils your piss" before that thread appeared on MR.

Bridgehouse said:

Handsome_Chris said:
@Roland , do you ever feel that people can not understand what you have written?

Or bother to read it...

I know the feeling.

Bridgehouse

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

chillidoggy said:

Jimbro66 said:

chillidoggy said:

Fully understand and support the mods decision on BCD.

The only thing I will say is some of the best rants ever were in the ‘Shit That Boils Your Piss’ section, and I’m saddened to think that not only my own efforts, but also those of some of what I consider to be the finest whingers and moaners on the planet will no longer be available for all to enjoy.

I’m not sure that was ever achieved. I saw the posts in that thread, including my own occasional whinges, as Old Man Shouts At Clouds. I can’t imagine anyone else found them enjoyable. No, we’ll just have to go back to whingeing to the missus -  who also takes no notice at all. 

It’s clear I’m not alone due to the popularity of STBYP thread, due to the number of posts in it. I’m not on a one-man mission to reinstate it, but it did provide a relief valve, even if it was shouting at clouds, and a good few laughs with some high quality, and damned intelligent rants from time to time.

Arguably, one of the finest threads courtesy of @Emp_Fab and if STBYP were a physical object, it would be a statue somewhere in South Wales.

Ironic. Your favourite thread, started by the member who caused the thread to disappear for good..

For the umpteenth time, it wasn't my thread!!  I have stated several times that the thread was started by someone else on MR.  I merely carried it over from there.  I had never heard the expression "boils your piss" before that thread appeared on MR.

Bridgehouse said:

Handsome_Chris said:
@Roland , do you ever feel that people can not understand what you have written?

Or bother to read it...

I know the feeling.

I’m really not sure you do...

stickyfiddle

FWIW the boiled piss thread was mine on MR, and Emp was the lucky chump who imported it here and got all those lovely notifications.

I can only apologise for any part in all this that might be traceable to that original thread!!

Bridgehouse

Six pages in, and plenty of comments about how it’s a shame, how we should have a forum that can’t be seen on google, how we should have a forum with no moderation, how the changes will mean an increased mod workload, etc etc etc



But hardly any comments on how the membership collectively could address the issue that caused this in the first place. 

Therein lies the problem.

Emp_Fab

Bridgehouse said:
I'm really not sure you do...

Trust me.  If there's a member on this forum who gets frustrated as frequently as I do because they've been misunderstood, I'd love to meet them.

Emp_Fab

Bridgehouse said:

Six pages in, and plenty of comments about how it’s a shame, how we should have a forum that can’t be seen on google, how we should have a forum with no moderation, how the changes will mean an increased mod workload, etc etc etc



But hardly any comments on how the membership collectively could address the issue that caused this in the first place. 

Therein lies the problem.

That's like asking the general public to collectively behave so the police don't need to exist!

Attempting to lightly moderate the Wild West is where the problem lies - in my opinion.  

poopot

How about... if you want to discuss topics not related to guitar... you do it on a non guitar related forum?...

just a thought...

 

Bridgehouse

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

Six pages in, and plenty of comments about how it’s a shame, how we should have a forum that can’t be seen on google, how we should have a forum with no moderation, how the changes will mean an increased mod workload, etc etc etc



But hardly any comments on how the membership collectively could address the issue that caused this in the first place. 

Therein lies the problem.

That's like asking the general public to collectively behave so the police don't need to exist!

Attempting to lightly moderate the Wild West is where the problem lies - in my opinion.  

Are you suggesting a more iron-rod style of moderation?

Snags

Bridgehouse said:

But hardly any comments on how the membership collectively could address the issue that caused this in the first place. 

Therein lies the problem.

Well, one of the forum rules precludes us from commenting "FFS, stop being a cunt" which is a frequent thought about some of the BCD stuff

(And of course would just degenerate into a food fight anyway).

The only solution I can think of that might work and doesn't rely on unicorns and rainbows is to:

- provide some guidance as to what won't be tolerated in BCD2

- expand the mod team and have dedicated mods for specific areas of the board to spread the load, acting as demi-gods

- treat the corrent mods as overall admins who are less involved day to day but wade in if things go above demi-god pay grade

That all needs more bodies and more structure behind the scenes, and probably more iron fist than velvet glove for a bit, but is a structure that has served other communities I know of well. Whether it's worth that aggro and culture change for what you get back, I don't know.

not_the_dj

poopot said:

How about... if you want to discuss topics not related to guitar... you do it on a non guitar related forum?...

just a thought...

 

It’s not just a guitar forum though is it. It’s a community of people with a shared interest, and sometimes we want to talk about non guitar subjects.

if it was strictly only on topic discussions it would be a much poorer experience. 

poopot

not_the_dj said:

poopot said:

How about... if you want to discuss topics not related to guitar... you do it on a non guitar related forum?...

just a thought...

 

It’s not just a guitar forum though is it. It’s a community of people with a shared interest, and sometimes we want to talk about non guitar subjects.

if it was strictly only on topic discussions it would be a much poorer experience. 

Fair point...

 we have off topic for that...

But, posts about what you do with your partner after imaginarily doing them up the bottle is not really a topic for anywhere on this site is it?

not_the_dj

poopot said:

not_the_dj said:

poopot said:

How about... if you want to discuss topics not related to guitar... you do it on a non guitar related forum?...

just a thought...

 

It’s not just a guitar forum though is it. It’s a community of people with a shared interest, and sometimes we want to talk about non guitar subjects.

if it was strictly only on topic discussions it would be a much poorer experience. 

Fair point...

 we have off topic for that...

But, posts about what you do with your partner after imaginarily doing them up the bottle is not really a topic for anywhere on this site is it?

No, but IMO the ‘nuke it from orbit’ approach to a foolish (possibly drunken) lack of judgement is a bit extreme. 

But it’s not my site or my rules so it is what it is. 

UnclePsychosis

Bridgehouse said:

Six pages in, and plenty of comments about how it’s a shame, how we should have a forum that can’t be seen on google, how we should have a forum with no moderation, how the changes will mean an increased mod workload, etc etc etc



But hardly any comments on how the membership collectively could address the issue that caused this in the first place. 

Therein lies the problem.

I've said this before, but whilst I strongly believe the "common sense" approach to moderation that has been tried so far is to the forum's credit its also the reason why the mods here are fed up - if the acceptable behaviour is vaguely defined then people will always cross lines and then argue about it. Unfortunately, what "don't be a dick" means is completely different from one person to the next and this forum consists of several thousand members of the public: even with the best of intentions we are never going to agree on what being a dick means and let's face it on the internet those with the worst of intentions will always appear. So people behave in a way that they think meets the "don't be a dick" rule only to be told by someone else that they've violated it. Or people see behaviour from others which they think is dickish which then goes unpunished. Both of these create friction. 

The current approach also led to the weird situation a few weeks ago where several racist posts got removed (with no further punishment handed out) and the mods said "everyone gets a second chance" (fair enough I suppose) and then a few days later a different mod is threatening to ban people if they don't use the search function before posting (erm...).

I really like this forum, I have a lot of respect and gratitude for lee and the guys who put so much effort into running it. So I don't want this post to come across as criticism - it's their forum and they can do what they want - but if it were me the rules would be a lot less open to interpretation. It may not be what the mods want to do but I think ultimately it would make their life a lot easier. 

viz

stickyfiddle said:

FWIW the boiled piss thread was mine on MR, and Emp was the lucky chump who imported it here and got all those lovely notifications.

I can only apologise for any part in all this that might be traceable to that original thread!!

Whenever I think of the evil STBYP thread I always think of its antithesis - the beautiful, pure, halo-basked smiley happy thread of Clare-Bear. 

The eternal battle between the two threads - the seductive, false promise of boiled piss pitted against the simple, naked purity of smiley happy puts me in mind of Dio’s Philadelphia ‘86 performance of Heaven and Hell, that divine light shining down on RJD - “then a little white shape looked down on me; he said, heaven is where you ought to be; come with me, cause I know just what to do” but I said “Go away! I’ll stay right here - with you and you and you - down in Hellllllll!” and you despair in the knowledge he’s destined to writhe and scream in the scorching agony of the hellfire that is STBYP.