Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb (And Twin) Review

Wazmeister

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Totally agree - but I do rather wish they would have tried to dial the amps in to sound the same, rather than just matching the knobs... 

I found it baffling how they couldn't dial them in even remotely close, given that Anderton's managed to. Almost as if they didn't want to...

Mick doesn't ever seem to have much subtly turning the knobs... just one side to the other.

DoctorX

They said that the midrange character of the TM was very different to the 65RI. Do you really think they’d be able to dial this out using the treble and bass controls? If by some miracle they could match the midrange character is it not likely that they would then be saying that the highs/lows/both were different?

AndyJP

I'm a neatral here. But I thought tps gave the tonemaster a fair crack. 

ICBM

DoctorX said:

They said that the midrange character of the TM was very different to the 65RI. Do you really think they’d be able to dial this out using the treble and bass controls? If by some miracle they could match the midrange character is it not likely that they would then be saying that the highs/lows/both were different?

They should have been able to get a lot closer - as they said themselves, to increase mids you turn the bass and treble down, and the volume up. All four controls are in the same part of the circuit - there is in fact a mid control in a Deluxe, it's just a fixed resistor instead of a pot.

Anderton's got them so close that in a blind test demo, most people could not reliably tell which was which.

DoctorX

Fair point mate, I wasn’t aware of that. If Anderton’s glorified advertisement makes them sound the same then I guess they must sound the same.

ThePrettyDamned

DoctorX said:

Fair point mate, I wasn’t aware of that. If Anderton’s glorified advertisement makes them sound the same then I guess they must sound the same.

To be fair, mid-range aside, they couldn't get the bass or the treble close. I honestly don't know what they were doing, but whatever it was, they were not trying to make them sound alike (or as good as they can sound, if you like). 

I didn't like any of the sounds they made, but that's more likely down to how they were recorded than the amps themselves. 

tone1

They look damn cool though...

DoctorX

ThePrettyDamned said:

DoctorX said:

Fair point mate, I wasn’t aware of that. If Anderton’s glorified advertisement makes them sound the same then I guess they must sound the same.

To be fair, mid-range aside, they couldn't get the bass or the treble close. I honestly don't know what they were doing, but whatever it was, they were not trying to make them sound alike (or as good as they can sound, if you like). 

I didn't like any of the sounds they made, but that's more likely down to how they were recorded than the amps themselves. 

I thought the 65RI sounded alright and the TM didn’t sound the same or as good. According to this thread it seems to be either: a) the TM isn’t supposed to sound the same as the 65 RI, just like Tone Kings and Carr’s don’t; or b) it actually does sound like a 65 RI but those TPS dudes are either blinkered neophobes, idiots or both and didn’t set it correctly. Then I guess there’s also the seemingly more sensible c) it doesn’t sound like a valve amp but it still sounds decent and at least it looks pretty and doesn’t weigh much.

xchrisv

Can’t remember if I posted this before in this thread or one of the others, but when we did a video comparison of a vintage Deluxe Reverb and the Tone Master last year, mic’d at band volume with the same performance reamped, I thought they sounded pretty bloody close. https://youtu.be/tmCtttruP28

Wazmeister

DoctorX said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

DoctorX said:

Fair point mate, I wasn’t aware of that. If Anderton’s glorified advertisement makes them sound the same then I guess they must sound the same.

To be fair, mid-range aside, they couldn't get the bass or the treble close. I honestly don't know what they were doing, but whatever it was, they were not trying to make them sound alike (or as good as they can sound, if you like). 

I didn't like any of the sounds they made, but that's more likely down to how they were recorded than the amps themselves. 

I thought the 65RI sounded alright and the TM didn’t sound the same or as good. According to this thread it seems to be either: a) the TM isn’t supposed to sound the same as the 65 RI, just like Tone Kings and Carr’s don’t; or b) it actually does sound like a 65 RI but those TPS dudes are either blinkered neophobes, idiots or both and didn’t set it correctly. Then I guess there’s also the seemingly more sensible c) it doesn’t sound like a valve amp but it still sounds decent and at least it looks pretty and doesn’t weigh much.

D.) those who havent played one think they dont sound like a valve amp...

E.) those who have actually played them think they sound really good, and to quote @chrisv ”pretty bloody close”

Seziertisch

chrisv said:

Can’t remember if I posted this before in this thread or one of the others, but when we did a video comparison of a vintage Deluxe Reverb and the Tone Master last year, mic’d at band volume with the same performance reamped, I thought they sounded pretty bloody close. https://youtu.be/tmCtttruP28

And that, ladies and gentleman, is how you do a comparison video. No excessively long preamble, clear playing examples, good quality audio and not so long that you have to take an afternoon off to watch it.

That said, I preferred the original, in some examples I thought they sounded very close, but the differences were there in particularly in the examples with the Tube Screamer.

TINMAN82

chrisv said:

Can’t remember if I posted this before in this thread or one of the others, but when we did a video comparison of a vintage Deluxe Reverb and the Tone Master last year, mic’d at band volume with the same performance reamped, I thought they sounded pretty bloody close. https://youtu.be/tmCtttruP28

Good video that, I remember watching it at the time. Then as now, agree they sound very close with the differences slightly more exaggerated with the TS engaged.

xchrisv

Thanks guys. I think the reality is that, had we thrown a modern valve reissue or vintage example with a different speaker into the mix, there would have been as much of an audible difference. Variations on a theme basically and, to my ears, none of them bad.

I suppose the caveat is that I don’t generally like high-headroom, big bottle amps and love what happens when you turn a Deluxe Reverb up past four, so these amps are very much home turf. I’ll probably get a Tone Master Princeton Reverb if they decide to release one as it would be incredibly convenient for home/rehearsals, even small gigs. 

TINMAN82

I’d consider a Princeton TM too (although I guess the weight argument is least applicable there).

For me, I think the bottom line is that if I only have one Fender style amp I’m happier with the valve version. A second would be fair game for a TM and I’d probably be happier leaving the house with the TM too.

Danny1969

When listening online your basically hearing 2 sources of audio that have both undergone a lot of digital processing, both in the conversion of analog to digital in order get the audio recorded, the compression algorithm used for the streaming and then your own device depending on what it is, a lot of laptops, iPad, phone etc uses class D amp for headphone socket. When I listen to some clips I can't tell which is which in some cases but then I often think both sound bad. It doesn't help when they use pedals because then your basically listening to clipping diodes ... which is fine on leads but can turn any chord with a 3rd in it to mush. 

When your actually in the room though andf your listening to the pure audio coming out the speakers it's a lot easier to tell and the higher the volume the easier it generally is. These days everything is digital, you can't get away from it as even the desk is digital now when playing live ..which is fine. But for me starting with a pre analog source better than nothing, even if it does get processed by the desk etc. 

Lebarque

^ Yep. At the end of the day, you've got to hear these things with your own ears and with your own gear. It's ridiculous the amount of hours I've spent researching and choosing gear online, only to know it wasn't for me within 10 seconds of plugging it in. For all those making decisions based online demos, be cautious. It occurs to me that most of the people who have actually tried the Tonemasters in person, rate them. Except TPS of course. But that was pretty obvious!

stickyfiddle

Just got through most of the TPS vid. Both amps sound great and any differences are no more than you’d get on any two vintage DRs, and I suspect half the differences could be removed or at least minimised by tweaking knobs further and at worst a speaker swap.

I’m still very keen to get a TMDR.

(also slightly disappointed that with all their clever switching kit they didn’t make an effort to get them set as close as possible then do a blind test)

HandwrittenHero

Lebarque said:

^ Yep. At the end of the day, you've got to hear these things with your own ears and with your own gear. It's ridiculous the amount of hours I've spent researching and choosing gear online, only to know it wasn't for me within 10 seconds of plugging it in. For all those making decisions based online demos, be cautious. It occurs to me that most of the people who have actually tried the Tonemasters in person, rate them. Except TPS of course. But that was pretty obvious!

I didn't get the impression that they didn't rate the Tonemaster...pretty sure multiple times they emphasised the amp sounded good, just to their ears not close to the DRRI which they preferred. Particularly in the midrange.

gatheredinsong

Lebarque said:

^ Yep. At the end of the day, you've got to hear these things with your own ears and with your own gear. It's ridiculous the amount of hours I've spent researching and choosing gear online, only to know it wasn't for me within 10 seconds of plugging it in. For all those making decisions based online demos, be cautious. 

I feel I need to bookmark this post and refer myself to it on a regular basis. 

monquixote

stickyfiddle said:

Just got through most of the TPS vid. Both amps sound great and any differences are no more than you’d get on any two vintage DRs, and I suspect half the differences could be removed or at least minimised by tweaking knobs further and at worst a speaker swap.

I’m still very keen to get a TMDR.

(also slightly disappointed that with all their clever switching kit they didn’t make an effort to get them set as close as possible then do a blind test)

I think if you imagine a slightly different scenario where when the 68 Deluxe came out they compared it to a 65 Deluxe and complained that it didn't sound the same it highlights how bloody stupid their review is.

There a loads of different Deluxe Reverbs with slightly different circuits and speakers including the Supersonic 22 (though it's differently named). They all sound different.