Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb (And Twin) Review

markslade07

I suspect they’ve reviewed these 2 with no interest in gigging them regularly, which is probably where the Tone Master is aimed at (light weight, DI etc). Personally, I think although they are called the same thing, they are for different users and depending on what you need, the slight tonal differences are probably almost irrelevant to most gigging musicians.

The differences between the two we’re all hearing also depends on how we’re listening to the video (iPad, headphones, monitors etc).

Wazmeister

TINMAN82 said:

downbytheriver said:

RandallFlagg said:

monquixote said:

Starting the video with "We are going to buy one"

I haven't watched it, but the chances of them choosing the non valve amp seems like absolute nil.

Agreed, but when you watch the video, the valve amp just sound better.

They haven’t tried the 68 - imo (never humble) they are going to buy the wrong one anyway. It’s quite clear that they aren’t open minded enough to realise that the advantages of the Tonemaster (weight, attenuator, IR output) outweigh the very small tonal difference that will not be heard by anybody in the average gig situation. That show (and yes I do watch every one) gets a bit too forensic too often. 

Sorry, totally disagree. The DRRI just sounds better, more harmonically rich and a more pleasing EQ curve to my ears. It’s barely even close for most of the video. 

They were very clear about mentioning the perceived advantages you mention (eg weight) but we’re also clear that they were judging purely based on tone preference in the room.

There’s a fine line between being “open minded” and being so keen on the idea of cheaper digital technology that you turn a blind eye to the gap that still exists in tone and dynamics. Those preferring valve tone these days are all overly forensic cork sniffers of course.

Have you played one ? They really are very good...

Comfirmation bias works both ways, and we know TPS has it as they openly admit it...

You see, for me, this is the first real modeller that has the ‘feel’ of an amp...

Bear in mind, Ive owned and gigged many great amps, including Carrs, Redplates, Tone King, 3rd Power etc etc.

This TM series really is very good standing on its own. Now, if I had roadies to lump the real things about and money was no object, of course I would use a valve amp.

But, I dont have roadies.

if I need a real amp sound and Im being open minded, Ill wheel out my Matchless.

Then the feathers will fly

TINMAN82

Wazmeister said:

TINMAN82 said:

downbytheriver said:

RandallFlagg said:

monquixote said:

Starting the video with "We are going to buy one"

I haven't watched it, but the chances of them choosing the non valve amp seems like absolute nil.

Agreed, but when you watch the video, the valve amp just sound better.

They haven’t tried the 68 - imo (never humble) they are going to buy the wrong one anyway. It’s quite clear that they aren’t open minded enough to realise that the advantages of the Tonemaster (weight, attenuator, IR output) outweigh the very small tonal difference that will not be heard by anybody in the average gig situation. That show (and yes I do watch every one) gets a bit too forensic too often. 

Sorry, totally disagree. The DRRI just sounds better, more harmonically rich and a more pleasing EQ curve to my ears. It’s barely even close for most of the video. 

They were very clear about mentioning the perceived advantages you mention (eg weight) but we’re also clear that they were judging purely based on tone preference in the room.

There’s a fine line between being “open minded” and being so keen on the idea of cheaper digital technology that you turn a blind eye to the gap that still exists in tone and dynamics. Those preferring valve tone these days are all overly forensic cork sniffers of course.

Have you played one ? They really are very good...

Comfirmation bias works both ways, and we know TPS has it as they openly admit it...

You see, for me, this is the first real modeller that has the ‘feel’ of an amp...

Bear in mind, Ive owned and gigged many great amps, including Carrs, Redplates, Tone King, 3rd Power etc etc.

This TM series really is very good standing on its own. Now, if I had roadies to lump the real things about and money was no object, of course I would use a valve amp.

But, I dont have roadies.

if I need a real amp sound and Im being open minded, Ill wheel out my Matchless.

Then the feathers will fly

Have no doubt they are good amps in their own right. I play through a deluxe reverb patch on my HX Stomp regularly (as per a recent blind test I posted). Hence I’d have no need for a tone master.

My comment was aimed purely at the tones and comparison in this particular video, which I think does show the TM in a (comparatively) more negative light than some of the financed or dealer based videos.

monquixote

I do think Mick's claim that all blind tests are "phooey" tells you all you need to know.

ICBM

RandallFlagg said:

The difference I hear in the TPS video is the same difference I hear with all modellers of Fender blackface amps I have tried, it's that mid range thing that a valve Fender blackface does. It changes as you change the volume on the amp.

I agree with this, but for the exact opposite reason - the reason I like Twins and other higher-powered amps is because this *doesn't* happen. (Or at least not as much.) I much prefer the tone to be independent of the volume as far as possible - there’s nothing worse for me than turning up a bit and then finding that the bottom end farts out because the amp can’t deliver anything other than more mids. That’s why a Deluxe Reverb isn’t a powerful enough amp for me, even though it’s “loud” enough in absolute volume terms.

What I can hear of the Tone Master is that it has enough bottom end that it doesn’t do that, even when it’s modelling the overdriven sound. That might might make it less perfectly accurate, but also more useful.

Danny1969

i’ve just watched it and I have to say I didn’t like any of the sounds they got from either amp ... pretty bland clean sound and pretty shitty sounds when they used pedals
For me I’m quite happy to use more or less anything for practising indoors the tones really not that important ... quite happy just to plug into my phone with headphones .. but giging I would rather just take a valve amp out and don’t really care if it’s a bit heavier.

Maybe the Tonemaster  would make sense if they were out a lot cheaper but £700 Is too expensive for what it is. 

I predict these will be available secondhand for around £400 within a year

Wazmeister

Im half way theough watching it, and Im with @Danny1969 here... regardless of which amp they were using the sounds were poor and not actually what I think of DR sounds.

Interestingly, aside from the ridiculous db matching and intricate cork sniffing, they both seem to lack an understanding of the DR and the TM generally, imho.

At 17.51 they begin to adjust the attentuator on the rear of the TM, which at this point is full on. Now, Ive played with our loud band and never had the att full up. At room volumes, the DR wouldnt have that ‘give’ that deliniates the DR sound.

dazzajl

The more I’ve seen, the more I really like the idea of the Tonemaster and I can definitely see one in my future. I’ve always wanted a Deluxe Reverb, not for any particular reason than it’s iconic. Much like I’d love a Mk 1 Golf GTi convertible. 

I really don’t have any useful need for another 20w plus amp with no master volume though. The TM would offer a DR sat in the corner of the room and something different in terms of use. If I liked the sound of it, that will be what matters. Not how close it actually sounds to any of the myriad of valve versions. 

downbytheriver

Wazmeister said:

Im half way theough watching it, and Im with @Danny1969 here... regardless of which amp they were using the sounds were poor and not actually what I think of DR sounds.

Interestingly, aside from the ridiculous db matching and intricate cork sniffing, they both seem to lack an understanding of the DR and the TM generally, imho.

At 17.51 they begin to adjust the attentuator on the rear of the TM, which at this point is full on. Now, Ive played with our loud band and never had the att full up. At room volumes, the DR wouldnt have that ‘give’ that deliniates the DR sound.

I’m with you too Waz man! To be honest I think they set out with too much of a preconceived result in mind and some of their justifications weren’t very helpful. 

You’d think they they would have got the message about speakers by the fact that it’s hardwired, but no. Mick doesn’t like Neos so they had to wire in a ceramic and then seemed to think that the fact that it sounded crap was the fault of the amp.  

I’ll probably keep watching but I’m getting disillusioned with a lot of their nonsense. 

Teyeplayer

Completely agree with you @Wazmeister. I think in the same way that a shop based promotional video targets a sale, the TPS one aims at discrediting a great bit of kit for the cork-sniffing fraternity. As you have said several times here, folks need to listen to the amp and view it as an amp in its own right: deciding if they like how it sounds and if they’d find it practical, rather than going down the route of a side-by-side ‘is it identical to the DR I’ve currently got in the room’ comparison. 

What I’ve found most entertaining about this thread, is how a thorough and honest review has turned into 5 pages of being told that you are wrong to like the amp and how unreliable you’ll find it. Bloody hilarious.

dindude

It’s impossible to be objective with a horse in the race. Waz, as much as I love you you posted a TPS vid to demonstrate that your opinion on the Automotone was backed up by them. All us serial swappers in here should have enough confidence in what we like not to require backup or get too defensive when someone’s opinion doesn’t match our own.

As to TPS....

The TPS guys give their perspective and we know what ticks their boxes but how many on here have had the opportunity to compare a TM with reissue dlx at volume in a controlled environment - not many I would suggest.

TPS has its own sound and it’s the combo of close mic’ing choices and bit (but not a lot) of room. It can get a bit tiresome - you know “here’s our clean sound for today” (combination of £8ks worth of boutique amp) and then the two-chord “splat-splat”.

But, the Dlx did sound better in that vid to my ears, considerably so, the TM sounded fine though. 

I kinda get the point on weight and a few of the back panel features but if these aren’t needed then for the same price I struggle to see why you wouldn’t buy the real thing rather than a simulation (that’s what it is people).

Wazmeister

Teyeplayer said:

What I’ve found most entertaining about this thread, is how a thorough and honest review has turned into 5 pages of being told that you are wrong to like the amp and how unreliable you’ll find it. Bloody hilarious.

Thanks mate for the insight.

Listen one and all. I didn't buy this then attempt to justify it with this review; I genuinely don't need such approval, and indeed financially, I could probably buy what amp I want/need/GAS for.

I a/b the DR and the TM, and genuinely struggled to hear much difference in my limited comparison. And it suited my current needs for a lighter amp, that looks superb, and has an excellent line out and attenuation. At a relatively dirt cheap price, imho.

I tried two Tone Masters, sent one back, and kept the TMDR because it is, imho etc etc, a great amp for the money.

stickyfiddle

I haven’t watched the vid yet as I’m holibobs and have better things to do, but I will when back in a day or 2. 

I like the TPS guys in general and appreciate their stance on liking what they like and not fawning over every new release purely because Fender sent them one. 

But I also don’t think they’re DR guys at all, even before you get to DRRI vs TMDR. They often mention how much they love high headroom amps - their “main” amps are a Fender Super, Two Rock and a Matchless (DC30?), so it’s clear their comfort zone is that “massive clean amp with stacked-OD” thing. 

For me the Deluxe Reverb is all about how it squishes when set around 5 and you dig in a bit. Making that experience more controllable is the primary attraction of the TMDR as far as I’m concerned (though obviously the weight and DI stuff is great), and that’s not what they want from an amp, so I’m not surprised that they aren’t impressed with it.

Wazmeister

dindude said:

It’s impossible to be objective with a horse in the race. Waz, as much as I love you you posted a TPS vid to demonstrate that your opinion on the Automotone was backed up by them. All us serial swappers in here should have enough confidence in what we like not to require backup or get too defensive when someone’s opinion doesn’t match our own.

Dan, I did indeed as I was criticised and mocked at times for suggesting again, that the CBAP was indeed superb sounding and revolutionary. And that it would be sold in two weeks

Well, I stand by those opinions.

Hopefully Im not getting too defensive, simply pointing out how gear is developing and how technology is moving things forward. 

I'd simply say. Try them. Then comment.

If there suit your set-up cool, if not, don't get upset just move on.... and find your voice.

It's never been so good for us to try new gear

TINMAN82

Won’t comment anymore on TMs (I’ve never tried one in person). All I’ll say is that I’ve never been happier with any amp, tone or amp feel than I am now after spending £800 on
this used DRRI. This with the mini pedalboard I put together is the sound I’ve been chasing. Add the Captor X and I have the attenuation features, direct out and IR capabilities of the TM (and more with Bluetooth connection to my iPhone etc).

Might trial a mini TS in place of the EP boost and not 100% sure I’ll keep the Aquapuss on board but will be hard to better this set up for the vintage Fender sound.

Wazmeister

TINMAN82 said:

Won’t comment anymore on TMs (I’ve never tried one in person). All I’ll say is that I’ve never been happier with any amp, tone or amp feel than I am now after spending £800 on
this used DRRI. This with the mini pedalboard I put together is the sound I’ve been chasing. Add the Captor X and I have the attenuation features, direct out and IR capabilities of the TM (and more with Bluetooth connection to my iPhone etc).

Might trial a mini TS in place of the EP boost and not 100% sure I’ll keep the Aquapuss on board but will be hard to better this set up for the vintage Fender sound.

Nice set-up that mate, and great value for money. Looks super cool too !

dindude

Wazmeister said:

dindude said:

It’s impossible to be objective with a horse in the race. Waz, as much as I love you you posted a TPS vid to demonstrate that your opinion on the Automotone was backed up by them. All us serial swappers in here should have enough confidence in what we like not to require backup or get too defensive when someone’s opinion doesn’t match our own.

Dan, I did indeed as I was criticised and mocked at times for suggesting again, that the CBAP was indeed superb sounding and revolutionary. And that it would be sold in two weeks

Well, I stand by those opinions.

Hopefully Im not getting too defensive, simply pointing out how gear is developing and how technology is moving things forward. 

I'd simply say. Try them. Then comment.

If there suit your set-up cool, if not, don't get upset just move on.... and find your voice.

It's never been so good for us to try new gear

Amen to that 

TINMAN82

Wazmeister said:

Nice set-up that mate, and great value for money. Looks super cool too !

Cheers! Would be very interested in how this board sounds through a TM and in particular whether the Tumnus derived bloom and breakup could be matched. 

LastMantra

I don't really get the weight thing. Surely a lot of the weight of a decent combo is in the cab and speaker. There's plenty of really good sounding ss amps. 
Get a light weight cab and speaker/s (that sound good!) and you've nailed it. Doesn't matter what kind of amp you stick in?

downbytheriver

LastMantra said:

I don't really get the weight thing. Surely a lot of the weight of a decent combo is in the cab and speaker. There's plenty of really good sounding ss amps. 
Get a light weight cab and speaker/s and you've nailed it. Doesn't matter what kind of amp you stick in?

A lot of folk (not least TPS Mick) don’t like the sound of neo speakers which are (to the best of my knowledge) the lightest option. Additionally, if you want a lightweight combo, the chassis needs to be light for durability purposes as well as just weight.