Any benefit in trading up

TADodger

In May I bought a Squire CV Jaguar and I have loved the form and scale length; so much so that I have considered trading up for a higher end Jaguar.

The hardware seems pretty good and pickups seem OK and they do the job, but would I see a major jump in quality (particularly pickups) by paying more and is there a price point at which improvement is noticeable?

Any other thoughts on which model to look at please?

Funkydung!

Squire CVs are very good, but obviously there is better. The best thing you should do is try out as many different guitars you can, some more expensive guitars are no better and in some cases may be worse than what you already have!

thegummy

Remember you don't have to get a new guitar to get new pickups, you can just buy new pickups and put them in that guitar.

TADodger

Funkydung! said:

Squire CVs are very good, but obviously there is better. The best thing you should do is try out as many different guitars you can, some more expensive guitars are no better and in some cases may be worse than what you already have!

True, and sensible, but its a bit tricky trying guitars currently, so was hoping to narrow it down if possible.

thegummy said:

Remember you don't have to get a new guitar to get new pickups, you can just buy new pickups and put them in that guitar.

Thats true, and i had considered that option. Suppose I should open this up to suggestions for Jaguar pickups that people have tried and can recommend.

nick79

I went from a classic vibe Tele to a 70th Anniversary Broadcaster... Yes I noticed a huge difference, pickups, finish, weight (the broadcaster is much lighter), resonance, and just general mojo. It did make me realise how good the classic vibe stuff is for the money though. 

meltedbuzzbox

I've owned many jaguars... many, many jaguars...

I'd say if you are happy with the squier keep it.
I would highly recommend mojo pickups for pickup replacement. 
My CS jaguar pickups have been replaced with mojos finest and it sounds even better.

Funkfingers

Many of the older Squier CV series instruments have pickups from the same factory as Tonerider. The latter retail for approximately £40 each. Boutique aftermarket pickups are likely to cost double that.

First, it might be worth establishing what it is about the stock pickups that you find disappointing. 

A vintage Jag bridge position pickup should sound bright and wiry with skinny roundwound strings. This is because it was designed to be used with Medium gauge flatwounds. 

A string change might be worth trying. Obviously, if you go up a gauge or two, the overall set-up will require attention.

There is an argument for upgrading some parts of the vibrato bridge and tailpiece. (This can be saved for later.)

For me, the real question is, how often will the Jaguar be required? (That is, compared to whatever Tele, Strat or Gibson style guitars you have.) I own one rather nice Jaguar but only use it for things no other guitar design can do so well. 

I also have a Squier VM Jaguar HH. It absolutely rocks. Seymour Duncan and some other brand single-coil-sized humbuckers will fit into the stock CV Jag cavities. The only possible modification would be to the screw holes in the baseplates of the pickups.

HAL9000

thegummy said:

Remember you don't have to get a new guitar to get new pickups, you can just buy new pickups and put them in that guitar.

A guitar from higher up in the range may be objectively better but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s better for you. If you like the instrument then upgrading the pickups could well be a sensible option.

My go-to is a humble MIM Std Strat (predecessor to the Player Strat). At the time it was the cheapest actual ‘Fender’ available. Hard to describe but as soon as I picked it up I knew it was the one. The okay-ish stock pickups got swapped for a set of Oil City’s finest and I now have, what to me is pretty much, my perfect Strat. (The only other change is an upgraded sustain block.)

monquixote

I haven't tried a CV Jag, but one thing about CV guitars in general is they all tend to have a generic Squier skinny neck profile.

Certainly the difference between CV 50s and an AO 50s is massive in terms of neck shape. 

They are considerably better quality all round as well.

March

nick79 said:

I went from a classic vibe Tele to a 70th Anniversary Broadcaster... Yes I noticed a huge difference, pickups, finish, weight (the broadcaster is much lighter), resonance, and just general mojo. It did make me realise how good the classic vibe stuff is for the money though. 

What are the fret's like on the 70th Anniversary Broadcaster? I've been eyeing on up for myself, but have had conflicting info on the 'vintage tall' frets. Some feedback has been that they are very small, some been that they are high enough to make the 7.25" radius a nice playing experience, but appreciate that it will vary from sample to sample dependent on lacquer etc. 

TADodger

Thanks for the comments so far. 

With things like neck size this is where the trying them out really comes in I guess. I like the squire neck (small hands) so something close would be good, but I have no problem with the neck size / shape on my Start, or the 59 neck on a LP, so shape may not be a big issue. 

In an anti GAS sort of way I like the idea of changing the pickups just because there isn't anything else that I find a major issue. I have changed strings to 11's and since I put one wind of tape on the bridge post I've had no issues from the bridge. it isn't even that heavy!

@Funkfingers, I can't even say that I hate the pickups, they just don't sound particularly articulate to me but can be dialled in a bit with some fiddling with the guitar and amp controls. If anything I may want to change the tailpiece / vibrato at some point. In terms of how often does it get played. Right now it is my go to guitar just because it feels right, so getting it right for me would be worthwhile.

FelineGuitars

We have found that the CV series is really good in most respects .

Our first encounter with one was literally being asked to do a careful fret dress and set-up and install some upgraded pickups. It was rather amazing to be fair - really had a proper old school Fender feel to it. Here is or time with it:

https://felineguitars.com/pages/anatomy-of-a-fret-dress

chrisj1602

I think you will see an improvement as you go higher up the range, it just might not me as much as you’d expect. The Vinteras are very good in my experience, I have a Vintera Jazzmaster and a Strat, very happy with them, and my friend has the Ocean Turquoise Metallic Jag and it is stunning.

RaymondLin

To get significant difference you need to go up more than just the next level.  The quality of guitars at the bottom has improved a lot so meaning diminishing returns kicks in sooner.

nick79

March said:

nick79 said:

I went from a classic vibe Tele to a 70th Anniversary Broadcaster... Yes I noticed a huge difference, pickups, finish, weight (the broadcaster is much lighter), resonance, and just general mojo. It did make me realise how good the classic vibe stuff is for the money though. 

What are the fret's like on the 70th Anniversary Broadcaster? I've been eyeing on up for myself, but have had conflicting info on the 'vintage tall' frets. Some feedback has been that they are very small, some been that they are high enough to make the 7.25" radius a nice playing experience, but appreciate that it will vary from sample to sample dependent on lacquer etc. 

I’m pretty rubbish at describing frets, but to me they feel spot on for the neck radius. I do find it very easy to play, I’ve never played a guitar with 7.25 radius before but it feels very natural. They definatly  aren’t too small.
I rate this guitar highly, well worth you checking one out if you fancy one - and only available for this year (apparently).

simonhpieman

The Squier VM Jag I used to have had a great neck. The frets were pretty big and the radius was 9.5 - quite unlike the MIJ Jag, AVRI 62 Jag and genuine 65 Jag I've also had.

Other things I noticed about the Squier vs the others:

- Chrome control plates looked somehow cheaper

- Pickguard was a bit cheap looking, mine was white on a Surf Green body.

- Pots were next to useless until almost at full opposite


General Jaguar things:

- People generally despise the MIJ pickups. Mine were microphonic as hell but I thought they actually sounded great

- My favourite pickup of all my Jags was the neck pickup on the AVRI. Sounded great with flatwound strings

- The stock bridges are fine if you use 11s despite what almost everyone in the world says, though I must admit to upgrading the Squier's bridge with a used AV65 bridge I picked up for a tenner (on here, I think). I've gigged all my Jags and a couple of Jazzmasters I used to have with stock bridges with no issues.

Hope that helps!

thegummy

I think it might be easy for people to fall in to a trap of thinking there is some indefinable quality that increases as the price of the guitar increases - that as well as the differences in specs that you know about, you're also getting this non-specific improvement. Or that even if two guitars seem to be exactly the same, if one is a lot more expensive than the other then all the extra money is going on this improvement.

The reality is actually that anything there is about a guitar is what can be described. If two guitars are made of all the same woods then they might weigh differently (which might make them sound different). Hardware might look just alike but one set of tuners more accurate than the other etc. Pickups all look the same really but they can sound very different (not necessarily with the more expensive sounding better in any objective way.

So I don't mean that if two guitars look the same then they are the same. But I've been in the position before of finding 2 guitars with very little difference in everything apart from price which had a bigger difference and it can be tempting to think there's this indefinable quality that makes the more expensive one worth more.

Really a lot of the price difference can be down to the relative costs of the countries they're made in and where the materials are bought on as well as a lot of mark up. I.e. the manufacturer makes a deluxe line with 100 quids worth of upgrades and charges 300 quid extra.

TLDR; you could walk in to a guitar shop and find several guitars better than your Squier. But it's not the case that the more you pay the better you get or that if you pay double what the Squier cost you'd be guaranteed a better guitar. It's a lot less clear cut than something like computer processors where a company's 400 quid model is directly better than their 200 quid model.

TADodger

@thegummy - this is kind of why I asked the question. Assuming that you dismiss guitars that are more expensive due to marketing hype, then for the extra cost you should be seeing improved specs. But, we are talking here of the same guitar form but at a higher price when there is nothing to really dislike on the one that I have (accepting that some bits could be better), so the question is how much money is necessary for a noticeable improvement.

I am seeking to get the benefit of the experiences of those that have tried this before, but maybe the real answer is keep playing what I’ve got and, somehow, try other Jaguars (and other short scale guitars, I guess) to see if something jumps out.

To change the discussion up a bit and picking up on @Funkfingers point about how often a Jaguar is used, are there any more versatile guitars that follow the same, or similar, form factor i.e. short scale, offset?

skullfunkerry

Not really much I can add here that people haven't already said. I will say though that the Squier Contemporary Active Strat I had was my favourite Strat that I've ever played, and easily a match for a Charvel Pro-Mod that I had at the same time. There's a lot of marketing voodoo about having the next one, but this forum has several members who have traded "up" from a Squier and regretted it...

HAL9000

skullfunkerry said:

...marketing voodoo...

That should so be a band name.

simonhpieman

TADodger said:

@thegummy - this is kind of why I asked the question. Assuming that you dismiss guitars that are more expensive due to marketing hype, then for the extra cost you should be seeing improved specs. But, we are talking here of the same guitar form but at a higher price when there is nothing to really dislike on the one that I have (accepting that some bits could be better), so the question is how much money is necessary for a noticeable improvement.

I am seeking to get the benefit of the experiences of those that have tried this before, but maybe the real answer is keep playing what I’ve got and, somehow, try other Jaguars (and other short scale guitars, I guess) to see if something jumps out.

To change the discussion up a bit and picking up on @Funkfingers point about how often a Jaguar is used, are there any more versatile guitars that follow the same, or similar, form factor i.e. short scale, offset?

On these two points, I forgot to mention that the VM Jag was the most playable guitar of all I'd tried due to the big frets and I think slightly lighter strings (I didn't have it that long but I never changed them so assume they were 10s).

Due to radii, vintage frets, heavier strings etc all the more "expensive" guitars could be quite a fight sometimes and would make me play more the way the guitars wanted me to, if that doesn't sound too new age and obtuse?! The VM let me bend, chord and solo just as normal.