How do you learn your Modal scale?

GuyBoden

Cranky said:

CAGED only factors for me when I'm focusing on triads and arpeggios or when I'm focusing on a voice leading scheme.  Scale degrees and modes are how I work out the chord progression and the "tonal center", and the tonal center is what drives the aforementioned triads/arpeggios/voice leading.  

If I'm playing C Myxolidian, I just tell myself to play the chords and scale of F major but then find some way to emphasize the Bb-C so that the F itself doesn't dominate.  So like, C Mixolydian is just a decentered F major, and C Lydian is just a decentered G major, etc etc.

I'm probably oversimplifying things for the sake of my own mental clarity, and I'm only just beginning the process of self-consciously noodling with these things in mind in order to capture an intentional mood and feeling.  But so far I think that my "decentered" theme has helped me distill the patterns from what looks like fretboard chaos at first glance.

I've found that any thinking that involves converting to Major ruins the mode's independent identity.

My feeling is that the dominance of the Major needs to be abandoned, even rejected, letting the true beauty of each mode have a chance to create an individual sound in your head.

But, it's difficult to getaway from Major, it's such a domineering bastard at times.

Cranky

GuyBoden said:

Cranky said:

CAGED only factors for me when I'm focusing on triads and arpeggios or when I'm focusing on a voice leading scheme.  Scale degrees and modes are how I work out the chord progression and the "tonal center", and the tonal center is what drives the aforementioned triads/arpeggios/voice leading.  

If I'm playing C Myxolidian, I just tell myself to play the chords and scale of F major but then find some way to emphasize the Bb-C so that the F itself doesn't dominate.  So like, C Mixolydian is just a decentered F major, and C Lydian is just a decentered G major, etc etc.

I'm probably oversimplifying things for the sake of my own mental clarity, and I'm only just beginning the process of self-consciously noodling with these things in mind in order to capture an intentional mood and feeling.  But so far I think that my "decentered" theme has helped me distill the patterns from what looks like fretboard chaos at first glance.

I've found that any thinking that involves converting to Major ruins the mode's independent identity.

My feeling is that the dominance of the Major needs to be abandoned, even rejected, letting the true beauty of each mode have a chance to create an individual sound in your head.

But, it's difficult to getaway from Major, it's such a domineering bastard at times.

That's why I emphasize the "decentered" aspect, which starts with re-calibrating the chord sequence.  For example, in C Mixolydian, I don't actually think of it as F-g-a-Bb-C/C7-d-edim, but instead as C/C7-d-edim-F-g-a-Bb.

This decentering has been a useful starting-off point for me, but honestly it's also gotten me thinking a lot more, and more clearly, about notes all around the fretboard.  And as my fretboard knowledge has improved, the need to fall back on "major" has diminished as well.

Any other tips?

exocet

Personally I think that modes on a guitar are a very abstract concept for many people. On a piano, it’s a different ball game because you can play melody on one hand over a chord played with the other. That’s where modes become more relevant to me. On guitar, it make more sense to look at the Chords that sit within any given mode and the different tonal qualities they bring compared to the Ionian Major mode.

GuyBoden

exocet said:

Personally I think that modes on a guitar are a very abstract concept for many people. On a piano, it’s a different ball game because you can play melody on one hand over a chord played with the other. That’s where modes become more relevant to me. On guitar, it make more sense to look at the Chords that sit within any given mode and the different tonal qualities they bring compared to the Ionian Major mode.

Yes, harmony can be the key to unlocking a mode's qualities.

If a chord contains the notes that characterise the mode (see table below), that mode's sound qualities are emphasised.

Try a Dorian chord with the notes: D B C F  it's a bit of a stretch at first, but persevere. The idea is to create chords with notes that emphasise the mode's characteristic notes, the notes that define the mode's sound.

Roland

Guthrie Trapp said at 26:50 in this video:

Practicing scales isn’t any fun, and it doesn’t sound like music.

Gulliver

I've always approached modes (except Locrian) as just major/minor pentatonic with 2 extra notes - what those extra notes are determines the 'flavour' of what you're playing. it also made integrating them into improvisational situations easier.    Once there you can do similar things with melodic and harmonic minor modes - build on things you already know.

It's just like maths  -  you wouldn't teach a child Pythagoras until they'd learned what triangles are and what square numbers are, before you combine the two.

GuyBoden

Gulliver said:

I've always approached modes (except Locrian) as just major/minor pentatonic with 2 extra notes - what those extra notes are determines the 'flavour' of what you're playing. it also made integrating them into improvisational situations easier.    Once there you can do similar things with melodic and harmonic minor modes - build on things you already know.

It's just like maths  -  you wouldn't teach a child Pythagoras until they'd learned what triangles are and what square numbers are, before you combine the two.

Excellent. Very good for players starting on the modal adventure, who know their pentatonics.

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Major pentatonic: C D E G A

Ionian: C D E F G A B

Lydian: C D E F# G A B

Mix: C D E F G A Bb

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Minor pentatonic:  A C D E G

Aeolian: A B C D E F G

Dorian: A B C D E F# G

Phrygian: A Bb C D E F G

Locrian: A Bb C D Eb F G