My Harley Benton 335 conversion to 12-string

poopot

Just... why?

JohnS37

Why, er, what?
Why does my heart keep on beating?
Why does the sea rush to shore?
Don’t they know . . . etc -
anyway, HNY!

JohnS37

I mentioned earlier that I had ordered a new bridge and tailpiece set, for 12 string, but it didn't turn up.  I had the six-string equivalents, so I have adapted them to 12 string.

New notches in the bridge saddles.
The tailpiece required some more brute-force butchery, and it's not pretty, but at least it is on the underside and won't be seen.

This should allow pairs of strings to occupy the original single holes.

JohnS37

Ready for the tuners now -

Fully loaded!  String paths will be interesting . . .

JohnS37

What to do about the truss-rod cover . . I really don’t like the old HB one, ugly shape.
And the old fixing holes have been covered up anyway.  I’ll have to think about a new shape.

Winny_Pooh

Nice initiative, however, try and keep normal orientation for the 3 a side tuners or it will do your head in.

ICBM

Winny_Pooh said:

Nice initiative, however, try and keep normal orientation for the 3 a side tuners or it will do your head in.

There isn't the space for that unfortunately. I can also see a potential problem with the two B tuners - it looks like the string on the far one won't clear the post of the first one. Too late now, but I think I would have gone for four up each side and four in the middle.

Hopefully it will work OK though!

JohnS37

Thanks for your observations guys.  I have strung it now, and the string paths are surprisingly good, not perfect, but livable.  I’ll put up some photos tomorrow when the light is better.
Now, you are no doubt familiar with the phrase ‘plays like butter’?  Well that doesn’t apply here!
It’s all working pretty much as it should, but the bottom E pair sound a bit duff, and there is a bit of choking between the 13th and 15th frets on the top E.  I broke the bottom E secondary string as I was tuning up, and unfortunately it took the tiny bit of Perspex that separates that pair of strings with it, but the strings still occupy their rightful places, so that’s not a problem.
The banjo tuners are great, if a little high-geared (low geared?) - a small turn makes a bigger difference than with a conventional tuner - but they work well.
Playability is not great, but there is some room for improvement with the action and maybe truss rod adjustment.  I’ll keep you posted.

MattNovak

Interesting project, well thought out. How are the banjo tuners holding up? I was looking for a cheaper alternative to put on a Firebird. 

JohnS37

MattNovak said:

Interesting project, well thought out. How are the banjo tuners holding up? I was looking for a cheaper alternative to put on a Firebird. 

It’s a bit early to say how durable the tuners will be, since I only put them on yesterday, but they seem pretty good to me.  They project out further than I expected, from the back of the headstock, but that’s not a problem.  Also they are geared differently from a conventional tuner - a small turn makes more difference.  Mine were cheap from China, two sets of five cost £28 total, including shipping.  Each set has four planetary tuners (like a Firebird) plus a different type, the one that goes on the side of the neck.
maybe give them a try?  They are much cheaper than Firebird tuners, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t make a viable replacement.  It’s possible the gearing might allow them to de-tune more easily, but it won’t cost much to find out!

Jalapeno

I'd be tempted to break it in with Eb or D tuning, just to iron thngs out .....

JohnS37

Now the strings are on it's not too wold . .

but looks quite bizarre from the side -

Jalapeno

I'd swap the G strings over  - ooer missus etc !  Looks great !

JohnS37

Jalapeno said:

I'd swap the G strings over  - ooer missus etc !  Looks great !

I see where you're coming from, but for the time being I'm going to stick with this arrangement, because the logic of 'which tuner corresponds to which string' is quite simple and easy to remember. Less confusing in practice . . . maybe!

JohnS37

Oo-er!  I was a bit slow on that one missus!

Rocker

Will the guitar neck be able to take the additional strain of the extra strings?  Just wondering as back in the 1970s, a friend of mine had a 12 string guitar strung with 6 strings and the neck was significantly bigger than the neck on my 6 string guitar. Your mods look good, well done. And you have an interesting guitar for very little money. 

JohnS37

Will it take the strain?  Well, so far so good, I guess time will tell.  And yes, my outlay was less than £50, so a cheap experiment really.  Jalapeno suggested I set it up initially with a lower tuning to relieve the tension on the neck.  I did think about that while I was stringing up, but old habits die hard and I sort of forgot to pitch them lower.
The action could do with lowering slightly, bu that means filing down the zero fret with the strings off, so I’m going to let it all settle down for a while first, see how we go.

JohnS37

MattNovak said:

Interesting project, well thought out. How are the banjo tuners holding up? I was looking for a cheaper alternative to put on a Firebird. 

Matt, I have just noticed that the banjo tuner on the low E secondary string slips.  As it happens I have two spare ones and will probably swap it out, but it doesn’t bode well for your Firebird.  I’ll let you know how the replacement one fares.

JohnS37

I swapped that slipping tuner yesterday, and re-tuned the lot to accurate pitch.  Seems to have improved everything a little, and the secondary low E is more stable.  Still not particularly comfortable to play, but I’m getting used to it.