The recent violence on Capitol Hill

Heartfeltdawn

VimFuego said:

yup, and this is something I have said about him in the past, he didn't invent this, but his expertise has always been in gaming the system, in loopholing (which is different from cornholin', as the judge was very quick to point out), in exploiting a situation to his advantage. And this is why, although I celebrate his defeat, this is a long way from over, he will be replaced. We need to find ways to bring the "disenfranchised" back into the mainstream. We need to get rid of this fear and resentment of intellectualism which leads to conspiracy theories. We need to find a way to elect trustworthy leaders, and then start trusting them again (yeah, OK, I saw it that then, time to put the crack pipe down).

This is true but it's also part of what I was getting at. If people already in the mainstream perceive themselves to be disenfranchised, how do you bring them back into the mainstream when they never really left it in any manner except in their mind? For them to come back, they have to lose some of the delusion they've adopted. It's not anti-authority because they have outward respect for military and law enforcement figures but it is inconsistent in application (see the veneration for a liar like Michael Flynn and the scathing words for Alexander Vindman) and obviously they fear the ultimate from of authoritarianism in their head, namely the Deep State.

goldtop said:

If we're revisiting Trump's appeal, it's not just the so-called disenfranchised that are needed. He also needs the rich and those who do well out of the US system. This article is a great read:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/

Trump, Erdogan, Putin, etc. It's the same playbook: squeeze the middle-class progressive/centrists out of the political equation by playing to the two extremes. As long as the so-called deplorables see the minorities and libtards getting owned, they are happy(er), and as long as the wealthy get those tax breaks and handouts, they will go along for the ride.

I'd disagree on the middle-class centrists getting squeezed out. In the case of the GOP, they were needed in 2016. Rust Belt/working class votes alone weren't enough. Centrist figures like William Barr were needed (and boy do Barr's words condemning Trump now ring hollow). Huge swathes of the party were prepared to debase themselves and venerate trump in order to get that Supreme Court nailed on for years. Consider the religious factor and the middle-class nature of Protestantism in the US (the income distribution chart for mainline Protestants and orthodox Christians compared to historically black Protestants is bloody revealing). Embracing religion helps with the low income black vote, it helps with the low income Hispanic vote (hi Florida) and it helps with the middle income middle class Protestant vote. Squeezing that middle class type out would make no sense. 

Rather than squeezing them out, they had to change their standards in order to embrace Trumpism. Barr I've mentioned. People like Mitch McConnell come to mind. Jenna Ellis dissing Trump in 2016 and now acting as lapdog. Lindsey Graham would be the obvious one to look at. They held their nose, they lied over Russia, they got their Supreme Court sewn up, he lost the election and now they're falling away.   

Squeezing out the centrists for the Conservatives worked because they can fuck off to other parties like the Lib Dems and take votes from Labour but in the US squeezing out the middle classes doesn't have the same impact because of a lack of serious third party. Obviously that could rather change in 2024. Dems versus centrist GOP versus mental MAGA Party, which sounds more like a fucking dreadful night in a 80's discotech than anything else.  

Bridgehouse

Brio said:

The same is true of BLM and something closer to home like the student demonstrations that trashed CCHQ a few years back. 

Are you really comparing BLM protests and the response they got to the shitstorm last night that showed how differently the American system treats black people?

You fucktard.

First page of this thread had a very clear warning from Digitalscream - “knock it off with the personal insults” - or the cooler will be invoked.

Final warning. Any more and it’s the cooler

Heartfeltdawn

If calling me a fucktard is an insult, you'd better lock my mum up for a fortnight. 

VimFuego

Heartfeltdawn said:

If calling me a fucktard is an insult, you'd better lock my mum up for a fortnight. 

isn't that a good night out in Brizzle? 

tony99

Heartfeltdawn said:

If calling me a fucktard is an insult, you'd better lock my mum up for a fortnight. 

I believe it's like a kind of crotchless leotard

Heartfeltdawn

VimFuego said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

If calling me a fucktard is an insult, you'd better lock my mum up for a fortnight. 

isn't that a good night out in Brizzle? 

I'm so lockdownedout, any night out in Brizzle is a good night out. 

Heartfeltdawn

On the National Guard:

https://wtop.com/maryland/2021/01/hogan-federal-approval-to-send-national-guard-during-capitol-attack-delayed/

That's utterly damning of Trump. 

RaymondLin

The maniac wants to be king but he forgets that at the end, none of them took an oath to serve the President, they took an oath to protect the Constitution. And the 2nd Amendments applies not just to Trump supporters, but everyone.

Philly_Q

Apparently Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth is a "person of interest":

stratology

If anyone still had any doubt that The Madman on the Throne is indeed mad - his first presidential act on the day after the Capitol attack (which also happened to be the day when the US set a new record of daily Covid-19 deaths, and also the day when the Senate was flipped after the Georgia election):

he awarded the Medal of Freedom to three golf players.


You can't make this up.

Brio

Well I got that totally wrong didn’t I?
A quite majestic missing of the point and I can’t even blame alcohol. I’d like to offer a very genuine and total apology to Heartfeltdawn for the cheap insult. And a further apology to you all for having to witness my transgression.

Final warning. Any more and it’s the cooler

Am I allowed to call myself a total asshat?

Heartfeltdawn

Nah, it's fine. No hard feelings at all from this side

Sadly a police officer has died taking the total up to five fatalities. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-officer-has-died-after-clashing-pro-trump-mob-n1253396

The head of the Capitol Police has also handed in a resignation date.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-chief-resigning-amid-criticism-over-pro-trump-mob-n1253389

Rich210

TforTele said:

Perhaps looked at from an "evolutionary consciousness" point of view (though I'm no expert on it) these are people just about at orange level (heavy on the individualism and self-reliance) with large amounts of amber (ethno- and nation-centric, mythic) and red (ego-centric, war-like) remaining.  Meanwhile the world has been steadily moving to a more "world-centric" state with the gradual emergence over the last sixty years of "green level" thinking and politics.  They really cannot understand the world that is emerging so they are lashing out and trying to destroy the "elite" they see as steering in that direction.  They need someone to listen to them and understand them, and Trump seemed to do that.  What he had no interest in doing was reconciling them with this new world, and that job needs to be done.

Just a different perspective.

I've not come across evolutionary consciousness but I have come across  attachment theory which is a psychological theory of relationships rooted in evolution. I agree people need to be understood and listen to them, but then also have an adult conversation with them. Currently they are listened too, and then what they say is used against them for Donald trumps power. Trump heard  a chant and then that becomes a policy for example. He reads learns that the algorithms expose these people to lots of conspiracy theories so he creates a conspiracy theory and embellishes it. Even when they provide no evidence to courts and the supreme Court throws it out they don't care because they are highly susceptible people and Donald trump listened and understood that, then abused the shit out of it. 

p90fool

I think we know we're overthinking evolutionary theory a little when we realise that Kevin Greeson, 55, from Alabama died of a heart attack after accidentally tasering himself in the knackers while storming the Capitol. 

yocky

p90fool said:

I think we know we're overthinking evolutionary theory a little when we realise that Kevin Greeson, 55, from Alabama died of a heart attack after accidentally tasering himself in the knackers while storming the Capitol. 

Quite

And listen to this gentle genius. Particularly enjoyed the Swiss cheese element of the global conspiracy

ThePrettyDamned

Oh my god, that actually hurt my brain. Qanon, third eye, shaman, occult. 

Hattigol

p90fool said:

I think we know we're overthinking evolutionary theory a little when we realise that Kevin Greeson, 55, from Alabama died of a heart attack after accidentally tasering himself in the knackers while storming the Capitol. 

There will be no finer winner of the Darwin Award for as long as it may continue. 

VimFuego

p90fool said:

I think we know we're overthinking evolutionary theory a little when we realise that Kevin Greeson, 55, from Alabama died of a heart attack after accidentally tasering himself in the knackers while storming the Capitol. 

whilst the untimely death of most anyone is a tragedy, that is feckin hilarious. 

Axe_meister

I guess one positive that does come out of this, is that it shows how disorganized the radical right are. This could have been far worse. The numbers were relatively small. With coordination of the numerous armed groups this could have been a complete blood bath if hundreds of thousands of armed thugs had turned up.

ThePrettyDamned

VimFuego said:

p90fool said:

I think we know we're overthinking evolutionary theory a little when we realise that Kevin Greeson, 55, from Alabama died of a heart attack after accidentally tasering himself in the knackers while storming the Capitol. 

whilst the untimely death of most anyone is a tragedy, that is feckin hilarious. 

It is tragic. The family have released a statement, saying he didn't condone violence and loved dogs and motorbikes. 

A bit of digging and a journalist found he had a parler account (which is that "free speech" social network) and he had a history of promoting violence, threats and posed with multiple guns about his person frequently. Pretty scary.

Still, it is genuinely tragic.