Will Micromesh take out these dents in stainless steel frets?

ToneControl

The guitar is new, and 4 or 5 frets around the 12th fret have a very gritty feel when bending, on closer inspection, the (stainless steel) frets look unfinished

WezV

I would start with 400g wet and dry, then micromesh

ICBM

Make sure you protect the fingerboard, I use masking tape.

ToneControl

ta, I'll wait to see if they want to fix it or if they'll give a discount
seems a strange thing to miss, the build quality is excellent other than that (and the 500k pots), and the truss rod wheel has lost its shiny coating in places, but I only spotted this with a very bright pair of lights:

andy_k

That truss rod wheel looks like it has seen a lot of use, are you sure it is a 'new' guitar, or is it just 'new' to you?
I'll take a guess at it being something like a 'Kramer nightswan' maybe?
It is strange that the frets in that area seem unworn, or at least unpolished, as that is an area that gets a lot of play.
I can understand manufacturers using a one step process when installing SS frets, as the accuracy of pressing them in means that they can miss out the levelling and polishing stage, which leads to the more played areas developing a polish over time.
It might be worth giving the entire fretboard a look over when the strings are off, as you don't want to be making adjustments to any one area really, it could lead to more problems down the line.

ICBM

They’ve skipped a quite time-consuming and hence expensive stage in the manufacturing process entirely, probably on the assumption that stainless steel frets are so hard that they won’t be marked from fitting...

Typical of the corners cut on cheap guitars and not surprising.

ToneControl

andy_k said:

That truss rod wheel looks like it has seen a lot of use, are you sure it is a 'new' guitar, or is it just 'new' to you?
I'll take a guess at it being something like a 'Kramer nightswan' maybe?
It is strange that the frets in that area seem unworn, or at least unpolished, as that is an area that gets a lot of play.
I can understand manufacturers using a one step process when installing SS frets, as the accuracy of pressing them in means that they can miss out the levelling and polishing stage, which leads to the more played areas developing a polish over time.
It might be worth giving the entire fretboard a look over when the strings are off, as you don't want to be making adjustments to any one area really, it could lead to more problems down the line.

The guitar is a new "B stock" harley Benton, I'm waiting for Thomann's response before taking strings off
I'm guessing they will just replace it

digitalscream

That's exactly what the Chapman guitars I tried at The Guitar Show were like, I was seriously disappointed (especially since I was trying all the expensive ones!).

I'd be tempted just to have a go at them with a set of coarse -> superfine fret rubbers to begin with if you've got any, since it wouldn't really require masking off the entire fretboard (which is the biggest ballache in tidying up fretwork, IMO). Not sure whether they'll take out grooves like those, but they certainly got rid of all the file scratches on my stainless steel frets after I'd been futzing around with them.

ToneControl

ICBM said:

They’ve skipped a quite time-consuming and hence expensive stage in the manufacturing process entirely, probably on the assumption that stainless steel frets are so hard that they won’t be marked from fitting...

Typical of the corners cut on cheap guitars and not surprising.

All the other frets are fine, I wonder if it's  one lazy person on the production line and a QC error?

This model is new price about £500, incl active EMGs, so probably a £370 model normally. Grover machine heads, TUSQ nut, SS frets, etc.

andy_k

It is a bit hard to comment on the 'cheapness' of this guitar, without knowing the facts really.
I'd suspect it was a bit of a bargain, being 'B' stock, and what does that even mean these days?
The truss rod wheel has seen more than a little action, and is probably made of the same cheap material that can be expected on budget instruments, the paint has seemingly worn off it, and there are marks inside the holes indicating repeated use.
With the guitar in hand, it will be easier to judge the faults in relation to the discounted price, and another 'B'stock could mean anything from another returned guitar, or a brand new superseded model.
I can't imagine that if this guitar is returned it would be then sold as 'C' stock, does that even exist?
I guess sometimes a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush etc etc.
If I were in your position, I would be happy with a further discount, or store credit, as there is not really a lot of guarantees a replacement will be any better, or even potentially worse, given the gambles we all take with shipping.
good luck whatever.

ToneControl

andy_k said:

It is a bit hard to comment on the 'cheapness' of this guitar, without knowing the facts really.
I'd suspect it was a bit of a bargain, being 'B' stock, and what does that even mean these days?
The truss rod wheel has seen more than a little action, and is probably made of the same cheap material that can be expected on budget instruments, the paint has seemingly worn off it, and there are marks inside the holes indicating repeated use.
With the guitar in hand, it will be easier to judge the faults in relation to the discounted price, and another 'B'stock could mean anything from another returned guitar, or a brand new superseded model.
I can't imagine that if this guitar is returned it would be then sold as 'C' stock, does that even exist?
I guess sometimes a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush etc etc.
If I were in your position, I would be happy with a further discount, or store credit, as there is not really a lot of guarantees a replacement will be any better, or even potentially worse, given the gambles we all take with shipping.
good luck whatever.

B-stock normally means "may be signs of playing", as in an ex-demo model in a shop, typically it's been sent out and returned
They are not supposed to have non-cosmetic faults
I've had quite a few b-stocks from Thomann, most are perfect

this one is a current model

Years ago they sold a few models "for decoration purposes", which some said were quite repairable, at 10% or 20% of normal price

I'll see what they offer

ICBM

ToneControl said:

All the other frets are fine, I wonder if it's  one lazy person on the production line and a QC error?

More likely that they are working to a strict time limit per guitar. QC at this price point is very cost-driven.

ToneControl said:

This model is new price about £500, incl active EMGs, so probably a £370 model normally. Grover machine heads, TUSQ nut, SS frets, etc.

Probably less. It adds a lot to the final retail price to buy in premium parts at the beginning, even for Thomann who have cut out most of the middlemen.

ToneControl

digitalscream said:

That's exactly what the Chapman guitars I tried at The Guitar Show were like, I was seriously disappointed (especially since I was trying all the expensive ones!).

I'd be tempted just to have a go at them with a set of coarse -> superfine fret rubbers to begin with if you've got any, since it wouldn't really require masking off the entire fretboard (which is the biggest ballache in tidying up fretwork, IMO). Not sure whether they'll take out grooves like those, but they certainly got rid of all the file scratches on my stainless steel frets after I'd been futzing around with them.

I got rid of file scratches on a previous guitar from somewhere else

I'll see if they offer a decent discount

ToneControl

ICBM said:

ToneControl said:

All the other frets are fine, I wonder if it's  one lazy person on the production line and a QC error?

More likely that they are working to a strict time limit per guitar. QC at this price point is very cost-driven.

ToneControl said:

This model is new price about £500, incl active EMGs, so probably a £370 model normally. Grover machine heads, TUSQ nut, SS frets, etc.

Probably less. It adds a lot to the final retail price to buy in premium parts at the beginning, even for Thomann who have cut out most of the middlemen.

I looked at a different model that is available with and without the EMGs, it's about a £130 difference
Actually that's before duty and VAT, so more like £160, but that's with a few other small upgrades, so probably adding £140-£150. Those pickups are £200 retail, sell for £170 if you shop around

ToneControl

well, I got a response from Thomann today

I usually speak up for Thomann customer service on the forum, but I'm not impressed with this response:

We have received the answer from our experts department.

You have bought a B-stock item, this is the reason for all cosmetic flaws and imperfections.

There is no fault with the guitar.

Regarding the frets:  it seems as if the frets are just not finished to perfection, which should be obvious when buying a guitar in that price range. Polishing frets is often done by the customers to improve an affordable instrument.

I think I will simply return the guitar

WezV

It has file marks left from fret levelling.  Somebody missed a spot.  They will polish out.

The truss rod has been used, but not abused. Not really an issue.

For a B stock guitar, I wouldn't be complaining

andy_k

Re-their response, I think that is fair enough really, you do get what you pay for.
If those are the only faults, and you got a healthy discount in the first place, it is probably worth it to just try and forget about it, or have a go at fixing it yourself, The frets will polish themselves with time-if you are playing a lot in that area, and I'd guess paying for somebody to fix it will be expensive, given the excuse that they are stainless.
Out of interest, what is the guitar, and what did you pay? I know you said they were originally £500 new, just wondering what a 'B stock' discount is?

ToneControl

WezV said:

It has file marks left from fret levelling.  Somebody missed a spot.  They will polish out.

The truss rod has been used, but not abused. Not really an issue.

For a B stock guitar, I wouldn't be complaining

I've never bought a new or used guitar with damage like this to the frets
Wouldn't stainless steel be harder to polish out?

WezV

ToneControl said:

WezV said:

It has file marks left from fret levelling.  Somebody missed a spot.  They will polish out.

The truss rod has been used, but not abused. Not really an issue.

For a B stock guitar, I wouldn't be complaining

I've never bought a new or used guitar with damage like this to the frets
Wouldn't stainless steel be harder to polish out?

its not damage, its a process that hasn't been completed fully.  The guitar will function as is, but will feel a bit rough.   you will find similar on guitars not sold as B Stock.

yes, its harder to polish out, but the micromesh you suggested will work well for this

andy_k

I think @ICBM had it closer to the truth, there has probably been no fret levelling or polishing done.
The frets would have been put in with a caul, on a press, and the ends will have been taken of with a sander.
Somebody probably took of the sharp edges, that is all.
I have had a few Allparts replacement necks, and I am sure they are the same, they are not levelling and polishing frets as part of manufacture, this is really either a maintenance thing, or an extra stage in setting up an expensive build.
SS adds a lot of nice things, but obviously there are some downsides in offering it on a budget instrument, how much is a fret level and polish these days-I'll guess around £100, on a SS fretted instrument I would also guess it will be more like £150 at least.
A lot harder than regular frets, means you will probably never have to do it more than once, if at all.

WezV

the allparts example is different as its not a finished playable guitar.   They bang the frets in and bevel the ends.... that's it.   You can't expect an allparts neck to be playable without a level and dress.  you might get lucky that it does play okay from the box, but it will certainly play better after a  bit of attention

This is a finished guitar, so should be playable. It is. The frets are as level as a non B-stock guitar.   They could be dressed better, but that's it.   

I can't be sure if its marks from installing or levelling, but the last pic looks exactly like a ridge of leveling marks down the center of the fret.

I'm also not sure what issue people are seeing with the truss rod.   It doesn't look as nice as a high end guitar with spoke wheel, but it looks consistent with a new far eastern truss rod. They rarely look pretty, which is why most prefer to hide them.  The holes may be slightly out of round, but not massively so.  This style of truss rod can get chewed up really easily though.
The black bits could be from any number of processes during manufacture, i expect there was an attempt to colour it in.