Advice on Jazz Bass - Beginner

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

That said, I've never found blend pots that useful on a bass anyway - I find they tend to only have three really usefully different sounds, which correspond to the three positions of a switch! 

Unless you have a bass with undersaddle piezo pickups, which are fantastic in their own right, but lack some upper mids for real punch in some band settings, so adding a magnetic pickup (in my case a split coil Jazz) near to where the P bass pickup is usually placed can add some of those mids back in - the blend control allows me to control exactly how much mag pickup I blend back in to balance everything out. It's even more useful when they are both connected to a dual amp board which allows me to set the gain of the piezo and the mag separately to balance them well before they hit the preamp stage. 

That'd be one scenario where a blend pot is really useful...

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

The Jazz Bass was actually a slightly odd backwards step for Fender - the P-Bass had a humbucker from 1957 onwards, and even though the two J pickups are RWRP, that means they only cancel hum when both are set to the same volume.

I need to check a few books but I am sure that there are photographs of Jazz Bass prototypes with dual coil pickups - almost like precursors of the Musicman Sabre Bass and G&L L-2000.

Amigo

I am more and more inclined to lean towards a two-humbucker bass on the sound front, given that the bass feels good to play, even if the pickups are not standardised in any meaningful way. It may take me a while to find one, though.

It also seems apparent to me that a bass with a pickup switch is more useful than a blend pot. However, a three-band active EQ could be very beneficial for dialling in various tones. Would that be a fair assessment?

Funkfingers

Amigo said:

a bass with a pickup switch is more useful than a blend pot. 

Depends.

On a Rickenbacker 4001/4003, Gibson EB-3 or those Gretsch Electromatic Jet Junior short scale jobbies, I would agree. When the two pickups are physically different and/or provide markedly different sounds, switching between them makes sense.

On a Yamaha Billy Sheehan Attitude bass, the pickups warrant separate signal chains, allowing a deep, clean rumble to underpin the overdriven mid range and high frequencies. (The Sheehan basses are, essentially, a rock Precision with the second pickup providing "sub-woofer" lows without recourse to onboard boosters.)

On a Fender Jazz Bass, decades of habit means that I can dial in what I require more quickly with individual pickup volume pots than I could with a panpot/balance control. 

Amigo said:

a three-band active EQ could be very beneficial for dialling in various tones. 

Depends.

Mostly, it depends on the flexibility - or lack of it - in the EQ section(s) of your amplification. 

In the case of the Billy Sheehan approach mentioned above, the idea is that the amplification should be set on the cusp of overdrive clipping. Then, the degree of dirt is entirely governed by how ferociously you attack the strings. Thus, the tone is entirely at your fingertips.

Bridgehouse

Amigo said:

I am more and more inclined to lean towards a two-humbucker bass on the sound front, given that the bass feels good to play, even if the pickups are not standardised in any meaningful way. It may take me a while to find one, though.

It also seems apparent to me that a bass with a pickup switch is more useful than a blend pot. However, a three-band active EQ could be very beneficial for dialling in various tones. Would that be a fair assessment?

Actually for active EQ I’d say that it depends on the db range of boost/reduce for each, and I think a mid-range frequency sweep is extremely useful if you really want a broad range of tones…

JayGee

Amigo said:

It also seems apparent to me that a bass with a pickup switch is more useful than a blend pot. However, a three-band active EQ could be very beneficial for dialling in various tones. Would that be a fair assessment?

Guitarist who’s started playing a bit of bass (and is still very much new to the whole thing) here:

I’ve got a Sire V7 (Jazz-a-like with the traditional 2 single coil pickups and blend pot but with added active electronics) and I’ve found the blend thing a lot easier to get on with than I thought and don’t miss the pickup switch. As others have suggested it turns out to be a pretty much set and forget thing (and so far at least ends up with enough of both pickups for single coil noise not to be a problem) and have found that the active EQ (three bands with sweepable mid frequency) surprisingly intuitive and easy to get on with as well - the nice thing is that it’s powerful enough, and easy enough to use that so far, when I’ve got up to play at jam nights[1] I can dial in a sound I like without touching the amp controls…

[1] Which you absolutely should do, just as soon as you feel ready, if not a bit before - playing bass at stage volume is a whole different thing to playing at home - huge fun but even more of a challenge keeping the dynamics under control with 500 watts behind you. :-)

Bridgehouse

JayGee said:

Amigo said:

It also seems apparent to me that a bass with a pickup switch is more useful than a blend pot. However, a three-band active EQ could be very beneficial for dialling in various tones. Would that be a fair assessment?

Guitarist who’s started playing a bit of bass (and is still very much new to the whole thing) here:

I’ve got a Sire V7 (Jazz-a-like with the traditional 2 single coil pickups and blend pot but with added active electronics) and I’ve found the blend thing a lot easier to get on with than I thought and don’t miss the pickup switch. As others have suggested it turns out to be a pretty much set and forget thing (and so far at least ends up with enough of both pickups for single coil noise not to be a problem) and have found that the active EQ (three bands with sweepable mid frequency) surprisingly intuitive and easy to get on with as well - the nice thing is that it’s powerful enough, and easy enough to use that so far, when I’ve got up to play at jam nights[1] I can dial in a sound I like without touching the amp controls…

[1] Which you absolutely should do, just as soon as you feel ready, if not a bit before - playing bass at stage volume is a whole different thing to playing at home - huge fun but even more of a challenge keeping the dynamics under control with 500 watts behind you. :-)

And similarly challenging live to keep on time with a drummer/everyone else - especially as they may well start to look to you to set rhythm and tempo…

Ossyrocks

Re dynamics, and learning bass, I was conscious of this. I’ve bought myself a little amp for the lounge, it’s a Fender Rumble 15, £95. I’ve got my TV through the hifi and I can let myself get a little loud. The picking dynamics are the most difficult things to nail, especially as I’m using fingers and not a pick. Great practice though.

Amigo

Right, I did a bit of research into cheap basses with humbuckers and I identified a few ranges that look interesting:
- Ibanez SR3XX series (I tried SR300E, felt good)
- Yamaha TRBX 3XX series
- Jackson JS3 Series
- Hofner Ignition Violin Series (I tried it, felt good, sound very hot, although my inexperience may be at fault)
- Epiphone Viola
- Sire Marcus Miller M2 (are those active 'buckers?)
When I will get the time to try them I do not know, but I shall try. Any insights on any of these?

Funkfingers

On the Sire, the pickups are passive. Only the onboard multi-band EQ is active. 

On the first generation M series, the pickups conformed to EMG-35 and -40 series soapbar pickup dimensions. (4- and 5-string models, respectively.)

Whistler

Amigo said:

- Ibanez SR3XX series (I tried SR300E, felt good)
Any insights on any of these?

Someone local to me is selling an Ibanez SR300E so I decided to read articles and reviews, watched some YouTube videos and now have the opinion that the SR300E packs in way more quality and value for money than its price would suggest.

Like the Sire, it has passive pickups and active tone controls.

Aside from its many positive points, the only negative I could find is that the pickups pick up or generate (which, I am not sure) a little hum in some (but not all) selector positions.

My impression is that I would leave it in the list of possibilities.

Funkfingers

Whistler said:

Amigo said:

- Ibanez SR300E

the only negative I could find is that the pickups pick up or generate (which, I am not sure) a little hum in some (but not all) selector positions.

The SR300E pickups are dual coils with a three-way mode switch.

Series mode is normal, full output, hum-cancelling.

Parallel would be reduced output, hum-cancelling.

Single coil mode is not hum-cancelling EXCEPT, POSSIBLY, if the chosen coils are of reverse magnetic polarity and coil winding direction to each other and, then, only with the balance pot in the middle position.

"Power Single" mode is also not hum-cancelling but is also given some active low frequency boost. Thus, it could prove noisier than plain single coil mode.

Additionally, the active EQ will contribute hiss at maximum boost.

Amigo

I have been more and more inclined towards this bass. When I tested it, it hummed every time the balance was not in the middle, but I do not remember in which position was the three-way switch, as I had not read about it before, and therefore had no idea what it did.

Someone here had an explanation:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/ibanez-sr300el-powertap-why.1306753/#post-20488305
"The tap position is single coil, the center is humbucking and the power tap position is single coil with boosted lows."
For me, agreeing with @ICBM's comment, I think that a switch that does series and parallel coils would cancel the hum, which would make it more usable outside of the middle position for the balance.

Funkfingers

Amigo said:

I have been more and more inclined towards this bass.

They are invariably nice to play. The only worry with the less expensive versions is whether the truss rod and slim neck can cope with high string tension loading. 

For full disclosure, I have an old SR800 with modifications.

Amigo said:

the three-way switch … .

a switch that does series and parallel coils would cancel the hum, which would make it more usable outside of the middle position for the balance.

The switch modification could prove tricky.

1) The stock Ibanez electronics may be a bunch of PCB modules, interconnected by block connectors and sockets rather than hard-wired soldering.

2) Simultaneous mode switching of two dual coil pickups via one switch demands the use of a 4PDT on/on type.   

Amigo

Not trivial, and not as easy as a normal guitar:

But if I get my mitts on one, there might be options... 

Based on the diagram above, if the switch can boost the lows, as per the description I found, it must have some reactive components inside, unless it does a parallel coil connection, but I can't see how that would boost the lows, quite the contrary.

Funkfingers

If, as illustrated, the Ibanez PowerSpan pickups have two-conductor + shield output cabling, it will not be possible to connect the coils within each pickup in parallel. (This requires four-con + shield output cable.) 

If the pickup housings are potted and sealed in epoxy resin, it would be very difficult to access the internals to modify them.

The solution might be to physically prevent the DP3T switch from deflecting to either of the single coil modes. Gaffa tape is your friend.

Amigo

That is why I have doubts about that diagram, if the switch is doing tapping, the three wires there should be the ends and the middle, which raises the question of where is the shield? Unless the shield is already wired to the 'ground'.

Funkfingers

Based on other Ibanez Hoshino schematic diagrams, I surmise that black is signal, red is the series link (for coil splittage) and the light grey/white is permanent ground.

Amigo

Funkfingers said:

Based on other Ibanez Hoshino schematic diagrams, I surmise that black is signal, red is the series link (for coil splittage) and the light grey/white is permanent ground.

That would be a sound interpretation of the diagram I found, and I would concur, were it not for the coil tapping that SR300E has. That made me think that the white wire might be the the middle tap point, or split point.

Funkfingers

Even if it were, series/parallel switching requires 4-con + shield output cable for each pickup.