The Doctor Who thread

monquixote

Snowmanned is being ignored over Christmas right?

Offset

monquixote said:

Snowmanned is being ignored over Christmas right?

I had to Google it.  Apparently:

"“Snowmanning” is the icy cold way of rejection where a new flirtation disappears once the Christmas period is over. The trend sees many singles taking inspiration from the 1982 animated film “The Snowman.”"

I dunno WTF would be expected to know that, but hey.

mrkb

Offset said:

monquixote said:

Snowmanned is being ignored over Christmas right?

I had to Google it.  Apparently:

"“Snowmanning” is the icy cold way of rejection where a new flirtation disappears once the Christmas period is over. The trend sees many singles taking inspiration from the 1982 animated film “The Snowman.”"

I dunno WTF would be expected to know that, but hey.

Is there not a version referencing jamming a carrot in the wrong hole??

digitalscream

mrkb said:

Offset said:

monquixote said:

Snowmanned is being ignored over Christmas right?

I had to Google it.  Apparently:

"“Snowmanning” is the icy cold way of rejection where a new flirtation disappears once the Christmas period is over. The trend sees many singles taking inspiration from the 1982 animated film “The Snowman.”"

I dunno WTF would be expected to know that, but hey.

Is there not a version referencing jamming a carrot in the wrong hole??

^^ this

monquixote

digitalscream said:

mrkb said:

Offset said:

monquixote said:

Snowmanned is being ignored over Christmas right?

I had to Google it.  Apparently:

"“Snowmanning” is the icy cold way of rejection where a new flirtation disappears once the Christmas period is over. The trend sees many singles taking inspiration from the 1982 animated film “The Snowman.”"

I dunno WTF would be expected to know that, but hey.

Is there not a version referencing jamming a carrot in the wrong hole??

^^ this

You can put anything into urban dictionary and get the same.

The former is clearly what they meant.

TimmyO

Having watched the 2 eps now of this series, I completely agree with the weird patchiness of it - some brilliant moments, ideas, sequences, and some enormously cheesy or clunky stuff butts right up against some of those moments. 

But so what? 

I recall some genuine jeopardy and tension the big beach-rescue episode of Fireman Sam - I found it surprisingly well paced and ratcheted up the drama - but there were also clunky bits that were only likely to go unnoticed as such by the children it's largely aimed at. Which is fine. It was my choice (sorta...) to be watching it. 

^ only SLIGHTLY tongue in cheek. 

When I was small, there were things happening in Dr Who plot lines that completely passed me by - because I was a kid. I was enthralled and lapped the whole thing up. As will the children coming to it now. I suspect some of the adults watching it back in the 70s lamented some of the more simplistic aspects of it. Big whoop.

TimmyO

fwiw I thought the deliberate over-simplification of what it takes to be helped as a refugee (in Space Babies) was a brilliant moment - would have made a good zinger in any real-world political debate on the topic. 

dazzajl

I had these two episodes on while working and probably need to give them more full attention. I know I noticed some quite cringy moments and some bits of absolute genius but not the threads that are supposed to hold it all together. 

RTD has always made camp and silly Doctor Who, the more tense, serious and chilling episodes under RTD have mostly come from Mr Moffat. The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, The Girl In The Fireplace, Blink and Silence In The Library/Forest Of The Dead. 

The next episode is another Mr Moff story. Let’s see if he still has the touch??

Offset

"Hey!  Who turned out the lights?"

dazzajl

Poor Proper Dave. 

Grangousier

There are only two episodes this season that weren't written by RTD - the Moffat one and the other was co-written by Kate Herron, who was the director of the first season of Loki. That's the one that interests me, because Loki S1 was one of the most Who-ish things of recent years and I've been wondering whether she'd work on the actual show. 

Oh, and Moffat is writing the Christmas episode, which he's quite good at. 

darthed1981

digitalscream said:

darthed1981 said:

digitalscream said:

darthed1981 said:

There was nothing subtle about Jack Harkness, or the hints the 9th Doctor was bisexual, in season one... but is that more what people want?

Bit pushed for time, but this is a great example - the most interesting thing about Jack Harkness wasn't the fact that he was gay. It was an aspect of his character which influenced the way he interacted with people (as it does for people in the real world), sure, but it wasn't the majority of his motivation and it actually came up pretty rarely.

As for the hints about 9, yes absolutely - the hints were all that was required to get the point across, because it was written very well.

That's the subtlety of good writing that just hasn't been present in Who for a very, very long time.

Yeah but... Ncuti hasn't been snogging blokes and going to pride events has he?  There was the dancing scene with a sort of skirt thing - but Harry Styles wears skirts and he is really really not gay.

Where in the first two episodes has sexuality been shoved in anyone's face?  Ncuti calls people "babes" once or twice if I recall but where else?

Yes we got the drag queen - but I thought that was played to make her more alien.  I thought the acting job was solid, and no, not in the league of Neil Patrick Harris, but he would make a great doctor.

The over-arching plot is really cool this time as well, I really want to see more of the "pantheon" and the more supernatural villains now the Doctor accidentally let them in...

OK, so...how do you explain the viewing figures? It looks like these two episodes hovered around the 2.5m range, basically just over half of the worst-received of 13's episodes, and 20-30% of the average of the previous incarnations? People just don't like this show any more. From browsing around, it seems more like people are re-watching older series rather than watch the new ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that's nothing to do with the characterisation, the writing or the preachiness. 

You can't explain it just by saying "oh, 80% of the fans are homophobic and racist". That's just not remotely realistic, unless you make the assumption that the majority of the population are actively racist and homophobic.

Incidentally, when you have lines like "I've just been snowmanned" in what people keep saying is a kids' show...how is that not "in your face"?

Well the good news is that TFB is still doing well on Google - as I just searched "doctor who snowmanning" to try and find where the reference was... and only found this thread!  

I'm not sure I'm bothered by the viewing figures overall - the show has ultimately been on now (new "season one" ploys etc notwithstanding) for 19 years

I certainly don't think homophobia or racism has much to do with it, I certainly don't think 80% of the viewers are either homophobic or rascist... I even think it's quite possible to easily agree to disagree...I didn't think the virtue signalling was that bad, and it didn't bother me, but I'm happy to accept it bothered some others.

It's not as good as it was at the peak of Tennant's era, and it probably has limited it's own appeal a bit, though I'd argue that every series after five (basically a Tennant season with Matt Smith in it) has contributed to that.

Moffat wanted everything to look clever, so had plots that were hard enough to follow that even fans didn't get them (you never had to explain who "the hybrid" was to anyone?) and in the end just went really dark (The Doctor Falls was brilliant, but very dark and sad).

Then Chibnall went way too far the other way, and only found his feet just before he left a job he probably shouldn't have taken as he didn't like it.  His low point was the series 11 finale.  I actually really liked several of his episodes, the Flux stuff was OK, his final episode was great, and the special with the Dalek time loop was actually brilliant.

Now - we have RTD back - and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to not like?  I like Ncuti in the role so far, he's a strong actor who can do camp and silly and then do serious a minute later.  I love Millie, and I loved her character as soon as she ran to save the baby from the Bogeyman.

Kittyfrisk

For a fairly concise take of the situation, listen to Radio 4's  'Dead Ringers' tonight's episode  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001z6t0
About 9m 20s 

TimmyO

Ok - ep3 was a bit of a load of cobblers. 

They ARE doing a good job of signalling some big background storyline that’s yet to be revealed so I think I’ll just keep watching to find out what that is.

tbh I was a bit triggered by the whole “those families of the war dead are lucky so and sos aren’t they? What with having nothing to REALLY be sad about.” :-/ 

darthed1981

TimmyO said:

tbh I was a bit triggered by the whole “those families of the war dead are lucky so and sos aren’t they? What with having nothing to REALLY be sad about.” :-/ 

That was literally the opposite of what the episode was saying.

darthed1981

I've got to admit in surprised the only comme t on episode three was a negative one.

That was a good old scifi anti war parable, with the foreseeable twist that their real enemy was the pricks selling all the weapons.  There's a lot of that about.

The woman playing the ambulance bots was genuinely sinister, the fate of the troops suitably tragic, and again strong performances from Ncuti and Millie.

TimmyO

darthed1981 said:

TimmyO said:

tbh I was a bit triggered by the whole “those families of the war dead are lucky so and sos aren’t they? What with having nothing to REALLY be sad about.” :-/ 

That was literally the opposite of what the episode was saying.

Genuinely possible I misinterpreted something - it was just the smiley “not gone just dead <smile> lolz” seemed a bit glib 

Jalfrezi

I thought it was weak, started out well but really dragged, a lot a "acting" filler, but very shallow storyline.  Reminded me a lot of Jodie Whittaker episodes.  Glad to see an episode without a musical number though 

Now starting to think the real issue is down to the two women that run DW these days   Such a shame ☹️

darthed1981

TimmyO said:

darthed1981 said:

TimmyO said:

tbh I was a bit triggered by the whole “those families of the war dead are lucky so and sos aren’t they? What with having nothing to REALLY be sad about.” :-/ 

That was literally the opposite of what the episode was saying.

Genuinely possible I misinterpreted something - it was just the smiley “not gone just dead <smile> lolz” seemed a bit glib 

That was just showing the girl hadn't completely lost her faith she had shown throughout the episode.  Without something like that, the only real comments on faith in the episode are the Doctors statement "it stops you from thinking" and the duping of the soldiers.  Would make it just a bit too cynical.

Jalapeno

Ep3 distinct improvement !