Daisy Tempest On Andertons - Interesting Video

Kilgore

I wish her well but I can't understand how anyone would buy a £6k guitar from someone with no track record of building consistently high quality instruments.

 It's like buying a sports car from the bloke who builds a few in his garage, it might be brilliant or it might fall apart the first time you take it out. Just buy the porsche instead. 

DuploLicks

There’s an interesting divergence here. Does Daisy crank up the production to meet the hype so people can actually play a Tempest or stay with the volume low but keep the a lid on the pan of boiling socials such that people stay engaged. 

I suspect Daisy didn’t plan this. She likely thought a bit of promotion would help, got picked up and probably has a real balancing act on her hands now - making a guitar or two under pressure to be amazing. I’m sure many luthiers would not want that

steveh

BillDL said:

Assuming that she is careful not to dismiss other builders and her mentors

She's already done that with Tom Sands. Now blanks him on social media or, alternatively, described him as someone who made her "sweep the workshop floor" in a recent interview I listened to.

That leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth indeed. Very, very unprofessional. Whatever went on there, suck it up and don't stick it "out there".

steveh

stickyfiddle said:

What I will say is she is head & shoulders above 95% of the competition on marketing, and I can absolutely see that being her most in-demand skill going forward.

I've witnessed several ways to succeed as a sole luthier, charging very big wedge for your product.

1.     Spend years learning your craft, like Rory Dowling & Rosie Heydenrych, getting better and better.

2.     Apprentice with a stellar luthier for a couple of years; Ervin Somogyi is the best known. Jason Kostal, Tom Sands, and many others have done that.

3.     Build a head of steam on the AGF, with multiple people praising your guitars.

4.     Get you guitar into the hands of someone famous: Jim Olson and James Taylor, Stefan Sobell and Martin Simpson.

5.     Get snapped up by TNAG or Dream guitars (requires some of the factors above for this to happen).

 All of these pivot on guitars in player’s hands. And great guitars at that, able to command the high price of entry.

Whether success at this level can be achieved when the focus is predominantly around social media “froth”, I guess we’ll find out in time. 

Adamski

steveh said:

stickyfiddle said:

What I will say is she is head & shoulders above 95% of the competition on marketing, and I can absolutely see that being her most in-demand skill going forward.

I've witnessed several ways to succeed as a sole luthier, charging very big wedge for your product.

1.     Spend years learning your craft, like Rory Dowling & Rosie Heydenrych, getting better and better.

2.     Apprentice with a stellar luthier for a couple of years; Ervin Somogyi is the best known. Jason Kostal, Tom Sands, and many others have done that.

3.     Build a head of steam on the AGF, with multiple people praising your guitars.

4.     Get you guitar into the hands of someone famous: Jim Olson and James Taylor, Stefan Sobell and Martin Simpson.

5.     Get snapped up by TNAG or Dream guitars (requires some of the factors above for this to happen).

 All of these pivot on guitars in player’s hands. And great guitars at that, able to command the high price of entry.

Whether success at this level can be achieved when the focus is predominantly around social media “froth”, I guess we’ll find out in time. 

Yes and no. I expect her to do pretty well based on the social marketing nous she clearly has that very much makes or breaks new businesses these days. That will attract casual players with wealth or perhaps fellow social entrepreneurs who will see buying (and therefore also collaborating on content) from her as not only a way to get a guitar but also more exposure to a potentially different audience. In this regards she's head and shoulders above the other Luthiers you've mentioned - case in point, I know her name and I've never heard of anyone else there. They could learn from her in this regard. 

Where she will certainly need to make headway is to actually get product in to the hands of players that genuinely influence musicians that are looking to drop £6K+ on a hand built, lifetime guitar. Whether that's people on AGF and other forums or respected pro players. In this regard you're definitely right and will help supplement and sustain what she already has. 

Crimson are a great example of this model. I suspect Ben is more known for his social output and his guitar workshops than for actually making guitars for players. There's no right or wrong way of doing this and it's all positive for the industry (IMO). 

hollywoodrox

She’s no Harley Benton 

jellyroll

We see this in all walks of life, especially music. It's not necessarily the most skilled who are the most commercially successful but the ones who develop an identity, a brand, something different. 

(I'm kind of assuming she is not *that* skilled after just 2 builds, which might be unfair....she might be a luthering genius)

personalnadir

Assuming the guitar is £6000, and I've counted correctly, if everyone who's commented on this thread before this post put in £230 we could have a single communal guitar. Split over the next 10 years we'd all get about 146 days out of it - which is about £1.5 per day. Last person alive keeps it?

Soupman

We all know people who TALK a good job....
For an unknown "Luthier" she has created a very big discussion on here. We're currently on page 4....
Most people have their views on this & will be sticking to them I suspect.
Enough is enough 

artiebear

Adamski said:

steveh said:

stickyfiddle said:

What I will say is she is head & shoulders above 95% of the competition on marketing, and I can absolutely see that being her most in-demand skill going forward.

I've witnessed several ways to succeed as a sole luthier, charging very big wedge for your product.

1.     Spend years learning your craft, like Rory Dowling & Rosie Heydenrych, getting better and better.

2.     Apprentice with a stellar luthier for a couple of years; Ervin Somogyi is the best known. Jason Kostal, Tom Sands, and many others have done that.

3.     Build a head of steam on the AGF, with multiple people praising your guitars.

4.     Get you guitar into the hands of someone famous: Jim Olson and James Taylor, Stefan Sobell and Martin Simpson.

5.     Get snapped up by TNAG or Dream guitars (requires some of the factors above for this to happen).

 All of these pivot on guitars in player’s hands. And great guitars at that, able to command the high price of entry.

Whether success at this level can be achieved when the focus is predominantly around social media “froth”, I guess we’ll find out in time. 

Yes and no. I expect her to do pretty well based on the social marketing nous she clearly has that very much makes or breaks new businesses these days. That will attract casual players with wealth or perhaps fellow social entrepreneurs who will see buying (and therefore also collaborating on content) from her as not only a way to get a guitar but also more exposure to a potentially different audience. In this regards she's head and shoulders above the other Luthiers you've mentioned - case in point, I know her name and I've never heard of anyone else there. They could learn from her in this regard. 

Where she will certainly need to make headway is to actually get product in to the hands of players that genuinely influence musicians that are looking to drop £6K+ on a hand built, lifetime guitar. Whether that's people on AGF and other forums or respected pro players. In this regard you're definitely right and will help supplement and sustain what she already has. 

Crimson are a great example of this model. I suspect Ben is more known for his social output and his guitar workshops than for actually making guitars for players. There's no right or wrong way of doing this and it's all positive for the industry (IMO). 

The fact that you haven't heard of them is irrelevant. The fact that some of those names are charging way more than 6k for a guitar and have a waiting list of a few years based on an actual reputation tells you all you need to know. 

Benm39

£2.6k for a Brook. And they repair guitars. 

Sporky

steveh said:

Whatever went on there, suck it up and don't stick it "out there".

That's a jolly oppressive position. 

prlgmnr

If you don't want to sweep floors I'm not sure working with wood is for you.

thermionic

She strikes me as the guitar-building equivalent of Mary Spender - she keeps popping up on my YouTube but I have no interest in buying anything she makes.

There are plenty of small builders who’ve been making guitars for many years, and in a large range of shapes/sizes/woods, who’ll build you a superb instrument, offering valuable advice on getting what you want it to be, for about a third of the price of these. Seems to be all social media hype to me.

Wazmeister

thermionic said:

She strikes me as the guitar-building equivalent of Mary Spender - she keeps popping up on my YouTube but I have no interest in buying 

I must say, this exact thought crossed my mind too

guitarjack66

thermionic said:

She strikes me as the guitar-building equivalent of Mary Spender - she keeps popping up on my YouTube but I have no interest in buying anything she makes.

There are plenty of small builders who’ve been making guitars for many years, and in a large range of shapes/sizes/woods, who’ll build you a superb instrument, offering valuable advice on getting what you want it to be, for about a third of the price of these. Seems to be all social media hype to me.

Whether you,or I,like Mary Spender or not she can play the guitar and sing and there is proof of that out there on multiple occasions. This young Luthier lady has hardly any proof of what she even does,it seems.

Collings

I watched the Andertons video as it came up in my list of recommended vids and as a result of watching that I got a number of Daisey's own videos recommended which I also watched and I have to say if I were considering spending 6K on a build and were talking to her I would probably not go ahead simply as she just does not come across as very knowledgeable or experienced.
 
I had a Toms Sands video recommended today which I watched which and felt exactly the opposite about even though some of Daisy's vids might be slicker in some respects.. 

Compare this from Tom covering the same subject 2 years earlier than similar from Daisy:





I wish her well but she needs to demonstrate she knows her craft far more than she does now.

bertie

Benm39 said:

£2.6k for a Brook. And they're much nicer looking

FTFY

BillDL

I think this thread now needs a "What She Has Done Well" section.  Whether or not I think that the marketing angle, intentions, etc are "right", here are some of my observations from her own website.

A common artistic motif that links a lot of it together is the little circle above the name, on the headstock, as side dots on the neck, in the circular logo, and even as the "favicon" that shows in a PC browser tab.  That's quite a clever theme continuance.

Instead of a "shop" or "buy" menu option, it is entitled "Invest".  The marketing direction she has decided to iterate elsewhere on the website tells you that you will be buying an "heirloom":

"Individually crafted acoustic guitars to give your music its finest voice. Heirloom quality pieces to last a lifetime".

"From the moment your build commences, the instrument’s journey will be documented. Upon completion, the archive of processes and creation will be curated into a book for you to keep with your guitar for life.  Below are some of the processes already captured with  No.1 and No.2.".

Clearly she has decided to go the route of making the guitars feel very special to the potential "investor" by spending time taking very professionally posed photos of her at work on each guitar to emphasise how special each guitar is.  She is very photogenic, but personally if I was buying a guitar with a base price of £6,000 I would rather see a lot more of the actual guitar and building processes without her so prominently in the frames.  In effect you are buying part of the luthier along with the guitar, which does make some sense to an extent.

Buyers are given some options to personalise the guitars by choosing different timbers, but at the moment she is only making one model.  I read in an interview transcript that she wanted to dedicate all of her time to only one model right now rather than spreading herself across several models so that she could concentrate on getting everything absolutely right with each one.  She refers to the design as a "blueprint".  It is an interesting shape, and I commend her on that.

Two observations.  In the "Investment" page it says "Bespoke instrument commissions begin at £6,000".  One model with different wood and decoration options isn't really "bespoke" in the general sense of the word, or certainly how most people interpret it.  Personally I would have dreamed up a better name than "The Model" if I was trying to emphasise the hand-made attention to detail for each individual guitar and customer.  By referring to each new guitar built as "The Model No. 3", and so on, I think it does the exact opposite of making it feel special, but this is probably a quite deliberate and considered decision and it might work for her.  The danger is that everybody then knows exactly how many guitars you have built so far and a low number would cause trepidation in many people.

Her order book is now open and says this:

"Please use the form below to book a slot for delivery Spring 2025*.

*Please note this date is subject to slots being filled and may be extended depending on the timing of your enquiry".

3 years seems to me like a long lead time, however if she is going to keep stopping to enrich the customer buying experience by taking lots of photos for the curated book for each one, she will probably need that long.

Hmmm.  Sorry.  I started out with the intention of giving a lot of positive observations, but I keep seeing potential pitfalls.  I do hope my gut feeling is wrong though.

darthed1981

BillDL said:

Hmmm.  Sorry.  I started out with the intention of giving a lot of positive observations, but I keep seeing potential pitfalls.  I do hope my gut feeling is wrong though.

Well if she fails she can probably walk into a well-paid job marketing for a leading brand or retailer, so she personally wins either way.