Widening/deepening a nut without nut files..

lovestrat74

What alternatives have you tried. Not sure I want the outlay of files when I will only use them once or twice.

DiscoStu

Try pulling a string through the slot?

lovestrat74

DiscoStu said:

Try pulling a string through the slot?

What about the unwound g,b and e strings tho?

Winny_Pooh

Welding rod cleaners for the wound strings.

For the plain strings take a thin hacksaw blade and file back the teeth on the flat sides so it's narrow and less aggro on the down cut.

DiscoStu

lovestrat74 said:

DiscoStu said:

Try pulling a string through the slot?

What about the unwound g,b and e strings tho?

Well you could modify some feeler gauges.

PhilW1

Don’t risk bodging it and causing more damage, you can get a decent set of needle files from Amazon ,Screwfix etc for about a fiver,
they have all the shapes you’ll need.

BillDL

THE most important thing about filing or altering the string slots in the nut is that you have an absolutely sharp and clean takeoff point at the fretboard side of the nut.  If the apex in the slot is further into the centre of the nut and the slot slopes down from there to the fretboard edge, even by the tiniest amount, you are likely to get buzzing from the string in that slot.  In that scenario your intonation can also be affected.

When filing the slot you need to protect the face of the peghead and angle the file so it follows the string angle, and watch the fretboard side to see how much material you are removing.  Do it in tiny increments, brushing or blowing the dust from the slot, and keep checking clearance over the 1st fret of that string while fretting it on the 3rd fret.  If the string touches the 1st fret you have filed too deep.

The main issue with the fine rasps intended for cleaning welding nozzles is that they flex when you press on them, and they are therefore hard to keep in a straight line to avoid leaving a downslope at the fretboard side of the nut slot.  It is possible with care though, and by doing a lot of passes pulling through with light pressure while supporting it with your finger.  the other issue with them is that they are gauged by some industry standard nozzle size rather than in decimal inches or mm, and you are very unlikely to get ones fine enough for the higher few strings.  You usually see these pipe cleaners advertised for rounding the bottom of nut slots rather than as actual nut files.  As DiscoStu has mentioned, pulling a wound string through the slot can do as good or better job of slightly deepening a round-bottomed slot.

As Winny_Pooh has mentioned, a junior hacksaw blade with the set of the teeth flattened (i.e. in line with the blade, not blunted on the cutting edge) can sometimes be fine enough for the treble strings.  The back edge of the junior hacksaw blade is sometimes rounded enough, and if you wrap some fine wet & dry paper around it and use that as a file to get a smooth round-bottomed slot.  The same is true of feeler gauges.  They usually have rounded edges or you would slice yourself on them, so you can use them and the wet & dry paper with care and achieve fairly good results.  In the past I've used old butter knives and various other thin, fairly stiff, lengths of metal wrapped with fine emery paper to do this.  I have even used 400 grit wet & dry folded over a few times into a blunt edge of the right thickness.

[EDIT] after seeing PhilW1's suggestion.  I've used needle files myself, but only for the 4th to the 6th.  A round needle file bought in a set is rarely fine enough to do your treble string slots without widening them, and the "v" shaped ones will leave a sharp bottom on the grooves.

On an electric guitar the G string slot is usually the one that can be the most problematic because the string is unwound but fairly thick.  It's very easy to accidentally create two grooves with a ridge in the middle of the slot while using improvised files and the string will ping from side to side over the slight crest when bending down at the nut end.

What I would say is that if you are going to have a go at this yourself, be prepared for the possibility that you might need to buy a new nut.  Before I started using proper nut slot files I made my fair share of mistakes and had to start again and fit new nuts.

Funkfingers

lovestrat74 said:

Not sure I want the outlay of files when I will only use them once or twice.

Round objects. 

A decent set of nut slotting files will pay for themselves after two jobs. You save the time, trouble and minimum bench charge of a guitar tech.

steamabacus

lovestrat74 said:

DiscoStu said:

Try pulling a string through the slot?

What about the unwound g,b and e strings tho?

If it's only very minor adjustments you can get away with folding a piece of wet and dry paper over a piece of string of the correct gauge.

I wouldn't want to try anything major without proper files though (although theabove method can help with the final polish of the nut slot).

paulnb57

Ive tried just about every alternative to the proper files, all are a bloody faff, yes they are pricey and yes, I dont use them often, but the proper nut files are worth every penny IMHO, get some and thank me later

lovestrat74

paulnb57 said:

Ive tried just about every alternative to the proper files, all are a bloody faff, yes they are pricey and yes, I dont use them often, but the proper nut files are worth every penny IMHO, get some and thank me later

Which ones?

PhilW1

They have some ‘proper’ones on eBay for about a fiver,no idea if they are any good but might be worth a punt.

FelineGuitars

Funkfingers said:

lovestrat74 said:

Not sure I want the outlay of files when I will only use them once or twice.

Round objects. 

A decent set of nut slotting files will pay for themselves after two jobs. You save the time, trouble and minimum bench charge of a guitar tech.

On the other hand if minimum bench charge is often only £10 and gives you about 10-15 minutes of a techs time (and tools) it may be enough to get that job done. Ask - you may be surprised.

Otherwise I would suggest the Hosco sets 
This one is great for electric guitars https://tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/english/nut-files-set-of-3-electric.html

BillDL

Good suggestion by FelineGuitars of the Hosco set, currently available from ToneTech Luthier Supplies, High Wycombe for £81.50 and  Northwest Guitars, Cheshire usually have them for £76.  What I did find with them, however, is that the "blade" part of the file widens quite quickly from the cutting edge and I feel that the 0.010 one for the 1st string is a tiny bit wide.  I have a separate and much thinner bodied Hosco one like THIS from Northwest guitars that costs £16 and I use the 0.010 rubber-handled Hosco one for the 2nd string slot rather than the 0.013 one.  It is more flexible because the body of the file is thinner and more like a very fine saw blade, but it is much better for the 1st string slot.  Those fine ones are available as a set of 11 but do cost more at around £130, or if you bought them separately in the six sizes you wanted it would cost around £80.

There is a set of Hosco files that are quite fine, like the thin sawblade type, and come with a magnetic handle that gives you control with the much more flexible blade.  I haven't used them, but I'm not sure if the width of the handle would allow me to see what I was doing as well as having just a file in my hand.

One thing to watch out for, if you did decide that the outlay might pay for itself after a few jobs, would be fakes.  You will see loads of absolutely crappy files on eBay and Amazon dressed up to look like the red blue and yellow handled files by Hosco.  Although most of them don't mention the name Hosco on the handles or in the descriptions, I HAVE seen ones that were obviously fakes (going by the feedback comments and the general appearance) that had the name Hosco on the rubber or plastic handles.  Review comments for this type of tool are usually made by people that have a better idea than laymen and they know when something is crappy and/or fake.

paulnb57

lovestrat74 said:

paulnb57 said:

Ive tried just about every alternative to the proper files, all are a bloody faff, yes they are pricey and yes, I dont use them often, but the proper nut files are worth every penny IMHO, get some and thank me later

Which ones?

I have Hosco branded nut files, superb.

Welding nozzle cleaners, wet n dry wrapped round feeler gauges, flattened junior hacksaw blades, trying to use the abrasiveness of a wound string etc etc all utterly useless

The proper jobs are quick and easy….

lovestrat74

As always thanks guys for all your feedback in particular @BillDL who offered to lend me his files! Honestly, some of the offerings I've had on here of late are above and beyond... Thank you!

Keefy

I bought a set from StewMac about 10 years ago and got hit for import tax etc but they have still paid for themselves many times over. I have fettled the nut on almost all my guitars including 3 Custom Shop models and they all play better than they used to.

If you’re going to take on a job, tackle it with the right tools.

Sarge

I got the Hosco nut files at £16 each, the initial outlay was a bit too hefty for a complete set so I bought 1 per month, yes I paid a wee bit more but it didn't hit the pocket in one damaging punch and I could still eat each month.

I've done all my guitars with them and it was surprising how much better each one is for it, totally worth the money even if I never use them again. 

Rocker

Take your guitar to Feline or your local guitar tech and get the work done professionally. Those guys know how to do that job. 

lovestrat74

Rocker said:

Take your guitar to Feline or your local guitar tech and get the work done professionally. Those guys know how to do that job. 

As with most of my guitar work, I'd rather learn how to do it myself and have the satisfaction that, I made this, or I fixed that. Generally, if it's not rocket science I'll give it a go

flying_pie

Am I right in thinking that if some of the strings go sharp after using the term, and then can be returned to pitch after stretching the strings, it means there string are pinching and I need to sort the nut?