Shoot Out The Lights: Bartel vs Lazy J10 vs Two Rock - A LONG Review

Wazmeister

chris78 said:

Finally got chance to read this- great review Waz.

Ive played all of these amps and owned 2 and agree with most of your thoughts.

The difference with a great amp is the cut. You especially notice this in a band situation. Both the bartel and two rock cut in a way you can’t imagine. The TR is the best clean pedal platform money can buy. I made the mistake with mine of thinking “well, it’s a clean amp, I might as well buy a cheaper clean amp.” Huge mistake. I miss the TR hugely. 

The Bartel colours the sound in a way that the TR doesn’t, but it makes every guitar you put through it sound better. The way it fills a room is indescribable. You have to be there to understand. 

Both have sensational master volumes, both get very loud and have massive headroom. 

All 3 are huge investments, but they’re the price of a Fender custom shop and less than a Gibson CS or about the same as a core PRS. Way more so than going custom shop, these are a big step up in class from, say, a fender DR. Tonally, I’d get an American vintage over a custom shop and one of these amps rather than a cs fender and an inferior amp.

Chris, wisdom awarded ! Great post. 

Gilly

You’re considerably richer than us.

Alex2678

Wazmeister said:

To be honest, I'm really pleased with the trading up over the last few years. I'm amazed more don't do it.
Some collection pedals and guitars, which is cool. I'd sooner sell em and get a pot for some great gear.

That’s my philosophy. I’m maybe not as far along the journey, (I’ve never seen any of these brands of amps in person) but I’d sooner have a few quality bits than a lot of ‘okay’ stuff. What constitutes quality is relative, but I’ve just shrunk my pedal collection down from 16 to 3 in the name of quality over quantity 

impmann

Very interesting thread, Waz.

If you don't love something, there's no place for it in your home. Simples.

CloudNine

Brilliant stuff Warren, thoroughly enjoyed that. When reading your other thread, I thought that the J10 might stay, and might pip the Bartel in the old school tweed stakes. Definitely a special amp, and the most complex/rich tone of any I have had. I always missed a Victoria 5112 I used to have, just a fancy champ really, but had beautiful tone. But the J10 easily does that same thing, but even bigger, louder and more 3D, and with Reverb and Trem, so just wins completely. It is a very characterful amp and it’s hard to believe that sound is coming out of such a small cab when you get it cranked up.

Having said all that, if I had to keep only one amp, it might be my Victoria Regal 2, as just a bit easier to dial in for all sorts of guitars. The J10 can be a bit overwhelming in the low end with some humbucker guitars, Jazzboxes etc., although that only seems to happen at low to mid volumes in a small room, and it seems to all make sense again once it’s cranked a bit in a larger space. I would truly hate to ever part with it. 

I used to have a TR Studio Pro as well, and that was superb, so can imagine the Sig is even better. I can see how that and the J10 would be a perfect pair of amps to own.

HandwrittenHero

That’s a long review but you haven’t covered if they djent. And if as great as they are you don't secretly miss your Tonemaster ;-)

Wazmeister

HandwrittenHero said:

That’s a long review but you haven’t covered if they djent. And if as great as they are you don't secretly miss your Tonemaster ;-)

The Tonemaster is a good amp, and great value for money.

These, naturally, are different gravy

Benm39

Yup, I don't recall an Ola Englund vid review on whether Bartels Djent....

monquixote

I find this is always the problem when you shoot out high end gear. The answer is usually it's all great and you want all of it.

ChrisCox1994

Will there be a part 2 for gigging players?

Great in depth review but I never play at home (live in a flat) and would love to know how these compare at a function / small venue / pub whatever when you turn them up a bit and really get some air moving

Wazmeister

ChrisCox1994 said:

Will there be a part 2 for gigging players?

Great in depth review but I never play at home (live in a flat) and would love to know how these compare at a function / small venue / pub whatever when you turn them up a bit and really get some air moving

If only Chris !

Not gigging at the moment, but that may change hopefully soon...

The Two Rock has already been rehearsed and gigged, and was quite superb and not found wanting.

The LJ would be for small gigs, but it remains a very good home amp.

DougCoda

idiotwindow said:

Coda stopped listing Bartel on their website a few weeks ago – I don't know if it means they won't be stocking them again in the future but something to bear in mind in terms of UK availability. 

I'm not sure why so much is made of the cost of these amps. Quality stuff costs money and I don't think £4k or so is all that much in today's world for something that could last decades. People routinely spend £1000+ on Apple gadgets that are often landfill within a few years.

The Two-Rock certainly looks good. Does it sound good when played at genuine home volumes? I'm a bit wary about the idea of 35W at home but if it has an effective master volume.

Great review Warren..

We stopped listing a lot of things we import a couple of months ago as we had no idea what the exchange rate was going to be, it was a touch volatile and the rate we’d used was 20 cents higher than the one back then which makes a huge amount of difference to our selling prices.

Just had a Carr delivery so they’ll be back on soon, 6 Bartel’s early December and 6 more in February 

Hattigol

DougCoda said:

idiotwindow said:

Coda stopped listing Bartel on their website a few weeks ago – I don't know if it means they won't be stocking them again in the future but something to bear in mind in terms of UK availability. 

I'm not sure why so much is made of the cost of these amps. Quality stuff costs money and I don't think £4k or so is all that much in today's world for something that could last decades. People routinely spend £1000+ on Apple gadgets that are often landfill within a few years.

The Two-Rock certainly looks good. Does it sound good when played at genuine home volumes? I'm a bit wary about the idea of 35W at home but if it has an effective master volume.

Great review Warren..

We stopped listing a lot of things we import a couple of months ago as we had no idea what the exchange rate was going to be, it was a touch volatile and the rate we’d used was 20 cents higher than the one back then which makes a huge amount of difference to our selling prices.

Just had a Carr delivery so they’ll be back on soon, 6 Bartel’s early December and 6 more in February 

Do you have the Bartel prices yet, @DougCoda ?

Benm39

https://gifer.com/en/9Lng

HandwrittenHero

Hattigol said:

DougCoda said:

idiotwindow said:

Coda stopped listing Bartel on their website a few weeks ago – I don't know if it means they won't be stocking them again in the future but something to bear in mind in terms of UK availability. 

I'm not sure why so much is made of the cost of these amps. Quality stuff costs money and I don't think £4k or so is all that much in today's world for something that could last decades. People routinely spend £1000+ on Apple gadgets that are often landfill within a few years.

The Two-Rock certainly looks good. Does it sound good when played at genuine home volumes? I'm a bit wary about the idea of 35W at home but if it has an effective master volume.

Great review Warren..

We stopped listing a lot of things we import a couple of months ago as we had no idea what the exchange rate was going to be, it was a touch volatile and the rate we’d used was 20 cents higher than the one back then which makes a huge amount of difference to our selling prices.

Just had a Carr delivery so they’ll be back on soon, 6 Bartel’s early December and 6 more in February 

Do you have the Bartel prices yet, @DougCoda ?

Also does anyone know what I can get for a kidney?

chris78

Should be perfect if @DougCoda are getting Bartels in
Gives @Wazmeister a chance to get another just in time for his sellers remorse.
Roseland incoming……

DougCoda

Hattigol said:

DougCoda said:

idiotwindow said:

Coda stopped listing Bartel on their website a few weeks ago – I don't know if it means they won't be stocking them again in the future but something to bear in mind in terms of UK availability. 

I'm not sure why so much is made of the cost of these amps. Quality stuff costs money and I don't think £4k or so is all that much in today's world for something that could last decades. People routinely spend £1000+ on Apple gadgets that are often landfill within a few years.

The Two-Rock certainly looks good. Does it sound good when played at genuine home volumes? I'm a bit wary about the idea of 35W at home but if it has an effective master volume.

Great review Warren..

We stopped listing a lot of things we import a couple of months ago as we had no idea what the exchange rate was going to be, it was a touch volatile and the rate we’d used was 20 cents higher than the one back then which makes a huge amount of difference to our selling prices.

Just had a Carr delivery so they’ll be back on soon, 6 Bartel’s early December and 6 more in February 

Do you have the Bartel prices yet, @DougCoda ?

I’ve got an idea but won’t be 100% until early we get the invoice, there was a degree of stability in the exchange rate before September that just isn’t there now, it is better but I’m very wary!

I’m not in the shop today but can certainly work out prices on Monday if anyone wants them… email me at doug@coda-music.com 

HandwrittenHero

Bit of a finger in the air question regarding the Bartel - at what point does dropping the noise coming out if it hit the point where it’s no longer that special? 

Wazmeister

HandwrittenHero said:

Bit of a finger in the air question regarding the Bartel - at what point does dropping the noise coming out if it hit the point where it’s no longer that special? 

I must say, at no point did I notice that. It's a special amp, and Mark is reknown for his attenuators.

HandwrittenHero

Fair, it was a question prompted by seeing a thread elsewhere which I wish I’d saved a link to now! As reference my 1974X at -20db on a rockcrusher is a lot different from -16db (which isn’t drowning out a MacBook speaker, so not loud, it’s probably around TV level) compared to -12 or -8. It sits around there daytime and night time either the TMDR clicked to 0.2w is better or it’s a headphone job.

Cards completely face up - it’s me wondering whether I’d get enough more out of eg a Starwood than the Marshall 18 watter attenuated in a terrace house. I definitely miss gigging and not having these concerns!