Gigging amps

ThePrettyDamned

p90fool;361274" said:

[quote="ThePrettyDamned;359357"]
my car can't fit a 2x12 cab in it (seriously!).

Are you Noddy?
[/quote]

Ha!

I drive a puma.

thomasross20

Again... if it's 30W... and my Roland is 30W... maybe 30W is enough?
THe good thing about the Roland is it has a headphone socket and power squeeze button for home practice... BUT I don't think the cleans would cut it live.

ICBM

Don't be fooled by the 30W power rating... a Classic 30 is far louder than a Cube 30W. I'd say "twice as loud" except that it could be much more than that .

And an AC30 - which is also only 30W - is so loud it's not really comparable, far louder even than a Classic 30. Easily loud enough live, even clean. In fact you will struggle to find a gig where you can crank an AC30 these days.

thomasross20

I wonder how it can be louder given the same power rating. In any case, awesome... might try some amps this weekend, too!

ICBM

Because the volume is more dependent on the speaker efficiency, the power amp damping, the stiffness of the power supply, how far you can push the power amp into distortion, and some other factors, than it is on the actual rated power. Valve amps are always far louder than solid-state amps of the same power.

If you like you can compare your Roland to my AC30 and then you'll understand .

digitalscream

ICBM said:

If you like you can compare your Roland to my AC30 and then you'll understand .

To be fair, though, don't AC30s put out about 60W when you crank the balls off them?

Jalapeno

Cube 80 ?

Watch this

thomasross20

Let me test your AC30 and let's see lol.
Will prob hit the shops some time between Fri-Mon...
Will check that out at home - thanks, Jal!

While I want something good, price is definitely an consideration lol (as is size and weight!). Valve over digital, yeah?

ThePrettyDamned

thomasross20 said:

Let me test your AC30 and let's see lol.
Will prob hit the shops some time between Fri-Mon...
Will check that out at home - thanks, Jal!

While I want something good, price is definitely an consideration lol (as is size and weight!). Valve over digital, yeah?

Depends what you want.  

There is also raw solid state - like the Orange Crush Pro, Bandit, AMT Stonehead... These amps all sound good (well, I've not heard the stonehead myself, but it's gt positive reviews). 

ICBM

digitalscream said:

ICBM said:

If you like you can compare your Roland to my AC30 and then you'll understand .

To be fair, though, don't AC30s put out about 60W when you crank the balls off them?

Not quite, but more than 30W, certainly.

This is one of the differences - a solid-state amp, especially with a power IC module like the Roland, needs to be limited to prevent the power section distorting or at best it will sound terrible, and at worst die. (Although plenty are not, and do.) That means that the Roland is already at a disadvantage because its peak power can't much exceed 30W even on transients. A valve amp on the other hand - particularly one without negative feedback like the AC30 - has such a soft onset of distortion that you can overdrive them quite significantly without it being very audible - which takes you some way towards the peak power output - and at worst, it sounds great!

Then you have the difference in speakers - the sort of 'neutral' driver in the Roland is probably no more than about 97dB, possibly lower. The AC30 has two 100dB (conservatively) speakers, so it has around a 4-5dB advantage just from the speakers alone, which is roughly equivalent to tripling the power of the amp. Then there is the lower damping of the valve power section which tends to allow the speakers to resonate and make transients sound louder and more 'present', and the way a valve amp is less limited by the speaker thermal compression as they're pushed hard.

All of that adds up to an AC30 being at least as loud as a 100W solid-state amp of similar size, maybe even more - and compared to the little Roland, you might as well forget that they're the same power rating at all. But it's also about three times the size and weight, to be fair. And all that extra volume can be as much of a curse as a blessing if you do want the sound it can only get when it's cranked.

thomasross20

ICBM - are you an engineer? 

Is it essential to use the FX loop...?

Catthan

any gent giggin with a mini- Rec or Rectoverb 25?

if so, what cab, mic'd or not, how soon do you run out of clean headroom?

IanSavage

thomasross20 said:

ICBM - are you an engineer? 

Is it essential to use the FX loop...?

Yes he is, and no it isn't

Moe_Zambeek

thomasross20 said:

ICBM - are you an engineer? 

Is it essential to use the FX loop...?

As you're in Edinburgh and appear as gas-afflicted as many of us, it's only a matter of time before you become a regular client of mr ICBMs fixing-things emporium.

 Edited to add I have a matchless hc30 which is also rated at 30 watts but is almost loud enough to demolish houses.

thomasross20

Seriously - what sort of engineer? I do microelectronics!

Anyway, back on topic....! Vox AC30 seems good value for money and is talked about on a lot of forums. Can't say Vox would have been my first choice!

ThePrettyDamned

thomasross20;362086" said:

Seriously - what sort of engineer? I do microelectronics!

Anyway, back on topic....! Vox AC30 seems good value for money and is talked about on a lot of forums. Can't say Vox would have been my first choice!

I can't speak for newer ones, but ac30s generally have a reputation for being a little unreliable.

@ICBM has just had one try to set fire to his rehearsal they are fab sounding amps, bit picky with pedals mind.

What stuff do you play?

thomasross20

Oh? Back to square one, then...!? Imagine an amp crapping out during a gig...!
I personally play a lot of Guns, Van Halen, Extreme... but in the band it's some classic rock and then 80s pop (Pat Benatar etc lol)

ThePrettyDamned

thomasross20;362096" said:

Oh? Back to square one, then...!? Imagine an amp crapping out during a gig...!

I personally play a lot of Guns, Van Halen, Extreme... but in the band it's some classic rock and then 80s pop (Pat Benatar etc lol)

Will, if budget allows, pretty much any decent Marshall type circuit would be ballpark.

Low budget: blackstar ID, blackstar ht, Laney lc30/50, lh50, orange rocker 30 (last ones used).

Mid: Marshall jtm reissue used? Or a jcm800, Laney gh50 (single channel, mind).

Higher: mjw custom build (less than you'd imagine, if your budget allows I'd definitely consider one). This is the route I'm taking, I'll be able to hear my guitars at their very best.

And there are loads of amps that can do a great classic rock tone. Seriously, your options are wide open, but the love of slash and 80s rock says you're looking for an amp that can ape a jcm800.

A solid state option: Marshall mosfet lead 100 head. Really great sounding jcm-alike.

thomasross20

I'm not wanting a head and cab - too much (££ and in weight/volume). 

Guys at guitarguitar were telling me they keep selling out of Blackstars.

monquixote

thomasross20 said:

£300-400 would be the budget so that's good.
30 - does that mean 30W because if so.... my Roland Cube is 30W!

Wattage is meaningless don't get confused by it. 

An AC30 is supposedly only 30W and is loud enough for any venue. 

If you want a cheap decent gigging amp then:

HRD - Most popular amp ever for a reason!

Peavey Classic 50 - Well made, and Nile uses them!

Laney LC50 - Stupid cheap SH and sound great.

A bit more money and:

A Rivera - Great cleans and drives

Mesa Express - Versatile, sound good and well made.

H&K Puretone - Rare, but sound amazing and good value SH (My main squeeze). Haven't tried one, but apparently the statesman is also pretty special.

If you don't want valve then you could do a lot worse than a Tech21 TM60 or TM120 (though many people hate them)

The whole "Get the best clean amp and use pedals" thing falls down a bit because most clean amps can't be made to sound like a high gain amp any more than most high gain amps can do a decent clean so you really need to decide what is the most important to you. 

I personally much prefer the sound of my favorite pedals to any amp drive I am yet to encounter, but then I don't use a lot of gain.