Balance switching between fuzz and overdrive

thecolourbox

One thing ive always struggled with is getting a good balance between fuzz and overdrive, like when i switch between the two. I play a fair bit of garagey type stuff and love the Jack White type simplicity of effectively having two sounds, overdriven and fuzz. But how ever i try to set it up, each individual sound is good, but particularly when switching back from fuzz to OD it just sounds a bit flat after the fuzz, and missing the punch I'd want

Is there any good tip on this kind of thing?
I've tried:
Fuzz before OD or OD before fuzz
Boost instead of OD, before the fuzz so boosts amp or fuzz depending (not tried this on my current amp yet though admittedly)

So I'll try the boost thing again maybe, but is the answer an AB looper to either have one or the other on, or is there some magic i can pull to get the balance better?

Thanks

ThePrettyDamned

You can step on one, followed by the other? It's only two pedals, loopers are more for switching in a few I thought.

If they're regular sized, you could probably step on both at once, just choose an od and a fuzz you like and off you go.

Or, get an axis fuzz! Brilliant clean, brilliant od and brilliant full on fuzz at the control of your volume knob. @monquixote also raves about his velvet fuzz, which sounds like it could have a similar result but a different flavour of fuzziness.

meltedbuzzbox

The empress multidrive can run OD, fuzz and distortion in parallel and it handles all 3 cleanly with no mushy dramas. 

It sounds epic having all 3 coming out of your amp

Bit pricey mind but it is an awesome pedal 

monquixote

I think it depends what you are doing and what fuzz you are using (they are all quite different)

With a Muff type fuzz one of the ways a lot of people use them is to use them for rhythm and then stick a TS type drive into them which boosts up the midrange to allow it to cut for solos. 

With some fuzzes like fuzz face types they don't respond well to having things in front of them and a lot of people set them on full whack and use the volume control to go between rhythm and lead sounds.

If you just want to go a bit louder then putting a boost or OD after the fuzz is going to be your best bet. 

The Wampler Velvet is indeed brilliant. It's definitely the most usable fuzz I've ever had. I'm also much enamoured of the WH Swollen Pickle which is a kind of muff on steroids type thing.

gusman2x

What about rolling back the guitar volume to tame the fuzz into OD territory?

thecolourbox

All good suggestions, and gratefully received - I will look into them

I suppose some kind of indication of the target sounds I'm meaning would be helpful

Or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh2uXaMN-Aw
Second one may not be suitable for work haha

So like pretty chunky (maybe even scratchy) od for rhythm, then for the "breaks" or solo bits, I'd like a smoother muffy fuzz

It generally sounds fine from OD switching to fuzz, but then when switching back again the OD sounds far too weak and lacking in something.

That's why I thought of having an AB type switcher, so set them both up to sound good by themselves rather than having to tweak them to "stack" well

monquixote

What OD are you using?

thecolourbox

I think maybe I need to work with the boost idea - listening to those two and this further example below, the actual volume doesn't seem to change that much - so a boost into the amp to overdrive the amp, but then switch the fuzz on and it boosts the fuzz into bigger gain but set the volume lower so that the volume matches?

Am I speaking nonsense?

thecolourbox

I've used a few monquixote, mainly cheap ones though. Joyo or previously Digitech Tubescreamer, Joyo Sweet baby (if I keep playing and using Fender type amps this could be upgraded to the one it's copying), Soul Food, EHX germanium muff, boosters have included the LP1, and a compressor I set up as a boost, and the Tubescreamer as a boost. I have had the nano and double muff od's, but for noisy set up reasons I use a wireless system between guitar and pedals which is low impedance output so the pedal craps out soundwise

The Germanium muff in demos always seems to cover the bases and in just one pedal, but I've had two and never managed to get them sounding the same as the videos!

monquixote

I think you might really like the Keeley Fuzzhead it's kind of a hybrid Fuzz OD. I sold one recently it's brilliant for rhythm stuff. 

The other thing that might be interesting to you is the Hot Cake as that's a very full bandwidth OD but as you push it hard it goes into a weird splattery bass heavy fuzz. 

The Wampler Euphoria does quite a similar thing. 

All of these things are fairly expensive mind. 

ThePrettyDamned

Another one is the red llama. Ultimately, people seem to love or hate it but it could be just what you need.

AxeWieldingBastard

I think running a compressor as limiter after your dirt chain will allow you to switch between your fuzz and od sounds without large jumps in volume and give u a better mix. If that's what your after?

Johnnyseven

I had the same issue after I bought a violet rams head muff clone. I love the sound of my turbo rat but whenever I go to play it after the muff it sounds really dull. It's nothing to do with the volume of either or the process of switching between them, it because the muff is so big and full on that the turbo rat can't match it. Leave it a while and use the turbo rat again and it sounds great again. I haven't managed to find a solution, I just think they don't work well together - maybe a fuller, heftier OD is the answer?

thecolourbox

Well, ive tried today with in fact the first pedal i ever bought which i refound in the back of the wardrobe, a monstrous Behringer Vintage Distortion big muff copy, boosted it as much as i could with the sweet baby, and with a bit of tweaking that seems to have worked playing along to White Blood Cells, i fit into the mix quite well even when switching between the two. There is still a bit of eq to sort out but i have an eq pedal so will try slotting it in different positions to see what it does

The Behringer does have a dodgy output jack but that could be sorted to suit me for now, for home playing I'm happy with the crappy Joyos and Behringers in the fairly certain knowledge if i needed to play in public i could just get the originals...

monquixote

Check this PGS vid from about 4:30 

Watched it today and thought about you. Is this the kind of thing you are going for?

If you don't like using the volume pot to clean up then maybe keep the gain low on the muff and use a booster for heavier stuff. 

thecolourbox

Thanks monquixote, unfortunately not really, admittedly he was playing a white stripes song but it wasn't the same sounds really that I'm trying (having trouble) achieving - for the Elephant album tone (my general reference point) its almost as if between the heavy drive and the fuzz there's the equivalent of two patches on a multi fx if that makes sense, hence my wondering about an AB looper. However i do think a big muff sounds better boosted by a drive, its just switching back the other way

I'm not a fan of cleaning up with the volume control as it seems to roll back to a clean which i don't want, i want it to be between heavy crunch and fuzz

I think some eq may help, there's no eq in the amp so will have to try the pedal

ThePrettyDamned

He uses an amp that's alright distorted I think, and has used big muffs and a wooly mammoth in the opast.

I'd guess his tone is an overdriven amp (ie turn it up - something tweedy might do it, but he uses a rare pawn shop amp a lot) and a muff - so muff on, very heavy distorted sound, muff off is an overdriven amp.

thecolourbox

Yes indeed, though ive never seen him live using the Silvertone, its always been a Fender. My Mooer bassman hardly has any gain though so needs to be pushed hard by a boost. Unfortunately am tied to this amp a bit as i was ripped off buying it so would lose a lot selling it on haha

Part of me thinks though that the overdrive was coming from the cranked silvertone but then when switching the fuzz it was maybe switching to the fuzz through a cleaner amp. Not able to stretch to a two amp set up though haha just for me to mess about at home on my tod

ThePrettyDamned

thecolourbox;370143" said:

Yes indeed, though ive never seen him live using the Silvertone, its always been a Fender. My Mooer bassman hardly has any gain though so needs to be pushed hard by a boost. Unfortunately am tied to this amp a bit as i was ripped off buying it so would lose a lot selling it on haha

Part of me thinks though that the overdrive was coming from the cranked silvertone but then when switching the fuzz it was maybe switching to the fuzz through a cleaner amp. Not able to stretch to a two amp set up though haha just for me to mess about at home on my tod

Have you got an attenuator? I might have one around I used with my mooer, it was awesome.

You need to get them loud for bigger breakup - volume up to 3/4 or more, then fuzz in front.

thecolourbox

No I haven't got an attenuator, though I do have it fairly high on volume and gain on max, presumably because I run through a ground isolator box straight from guitar to reduce some noise issues in the house and this does rather reduce my signal strength hence the need for boosting

ThePrettyDamned

thecolourbox said:

No I haven't got an attenuator, though I do have it fairly high on volume and gain on max, presumably because I run through a ground isolator box straight from guitar to reduce some noise issues in the house and this does rather reduce my signal strength hence the need for boosting

Hmm... That seems overkill.  

How bad is the house noise?  

I would have mine (AC30 alike, tbf) at 3/4 volume and gain at about half - this gave crunch. I'd exspect the BM to be different, but not too much. 

Otherwise, maybe just boost the signal with a clean boost into a muff - boost it enough that the amp is driven into quite a bit of drive (again, focus more on the volume knob than the gain - I'd start with both half way up and go from there).  

If that's too loud, try using an L-PAD attenuator.  Easy to build - just basically a big pot in a box, then mount it in a tin