Torn between two amps, help

sweepy

Ah my mistake, lost track of the current models ,why not look at a Nomad  

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of _Production/Nomad_Designs/Nomad_55/nomad_55.html

Heads seem rare, but you never know

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

It is definitely what I'd predict to be their best (in terms of potential sales) product in recent years.

You would think so, but I know for a fact that the Mini Rectifier sold very poorly here, and the same could be said of that.

I agree about the feature set and quality of Mesa seeming to justify the price - and it would, if you didn't know what the same amps sell for in the US. I know full well about all the usual stuff about shipping costs, import duty etc, but the plain fact is that other companies can sell US-made gear in Europe at far less of a markup, more typically 40-50% rather than the 100% that isn't far off the usual difference with Mesa.

I agree with Drew - be patient, wait for some other richer person to buy one new and not like it, and snap up a (relative) bargain second hand. At least Mesa stuff is good enough that lack of a warranty won't be such an issue.

Bucket

@Drew_fx What I'm looking for, first and foremost, is something with a really good clean channel which I can use with fuzz pedals etc, a shit-kicking distortion channel is just a bonus - but the Mark V's second channel seems better. There's no particular distortion sound I'm really looking for, so I'm not too bothered about how much it sounds like a Mark V or whatever, I just want a good sound - not necessarily "that" sound. As for cleans, either amp seems to do what I need. I know from experience that the Express's cleans are awesome.

I'm definitely aiming for it to be something I keep, not too worried about resale. And I'm paying in instalments of about £130-40 a month rather than blowing a load of money upfront, which I can't afford to do - I can afford to do this finance deal though.

I am playing live more and more, but only small venues - 25 watts would be more than enough. Portability is also a major factor, hence I'm after a small head which I can use with a 1x12. I'm not really looking for the high-gain chest thump thing, tbh - I don't really play metal or even particularly hard rock live, when I've got a shedload of gain it's generally coming from a fuzz pedal. A good lead channel is certainly something I'd like to have at my disposal though, hence why I don't just get a Deluxe Reverb head.

monquixote

Drew_fx said:

Honestly? I probably wouldn't get either. They reportedly sound nothing like their bigger wattage counterparts, and I suspect that is the vibe you're going for.

I suspect Drew might be right here. I used a Mini Recto a little while back and it didn't to my ears sound like a big one especially other than being rather darker sounding than I like. 

 I would also buy the 50 watt Express rather than the 25, but I can confirm the 25 does sound good.

Bucket

Hmmm... the Express 5:50+ may be an option too.

monquixote

Bucket said:

Hmmm... the Express 5:50+ may be an option too.

It's going to give you the flexibility to play bigger gigs and I think the difference is £50 so you'd be crazy not to.

ThorpyFX

Mark v. I have a big Mark v and I'm still gassing for the new little one, built in di too.......

Bucket

monquixote said:

Bucket said:

Hmmm... the Express 5:50+ may be an option too.

It's going to give you the flexibility to play bigger gigs and I think the difference is £50 so you'd be crazy not to.

The actual head itself is a bit bigger, not sure how much but hopefully it won't compromise portability.

Will it fit on a 1x12?

RaymondLin

ICBM said:

guitarfishbay said:

It is definitely what I'd predict to be their best (in terms of potential sales) product in recent years.

You would think so, but I know for a fact that the Mini Rectifier sold very poorly here, and the same could be said of that.

I agree about the feature set and quality of Mesa seeming to justify the price - and it would, if you didn't know what the same amps sell for in the US. I know full well about all the usual stuff about shipping costs, import duty etc, but the plain fact is that other companies can sell US-made gear in Europe at far less of a markup, more typically 40-50% rather than the 100% that isn't far off the usual difference with Mesa.

I agree with Drew - be patient, wait for some other richer person to buy one new and not like it, and snap up a (relative) bargain second hand. At least Mesa stuff is good enough that lack of a warranty won't be such an issue.

I made this little calculation in the Mesa over priced thread in TGP.  It doesn't have to be a specific Mesa amp, pick ANY mesa amp, and compare it to any USA made amp.  And then add on shipping, tax and duty and compare to UK price.

Bogner Helios 100w head

Sweetwater $2799 US

GuitarGutiar £2299 UK ($3756)

So how much would it cost if I import it?

$2799 x 20% tax + duty, $215 FedEx = £232

http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/

Shock horror as it is exactly as expected and even though i am paying $1,000 more than our US counterparts I am PERFECTLY happy to do so.

Mesa Mark Dual Rectifier 100w

Sweetwater $1949 US

GuitarGuitar £1999 UK ($3266 US)

Same calculations as above, if I import it, £1666/$2722

So where is this £340/$555 gone to? They are both made in California in the United States, got on the same plane, gone through the same customs and exercise office, pay the same percentage of tax, sold in the same store/dealer in the UK.  

And my Atma don't have a switch at the back either, it is built with a UK specific transformer.

A smaller outfit like Bogner can manage it, i find it baffling to suggest Mesa somehow costs more money to export it compare to Bogner

monquixote

That really depends on how big the 1x12 is

RaymondLin

Or a Carol Ann Triptik-R?

Humbucker Music $2795 (£1710)

Peach Gutiar £2499 ($4084)

£180 difference (8%) after 20% tax duty and shipping, still less than the Mesa difference.

How about a Friedman BE100?

Make N Music $3600 (£2264)

Peach guitar £2700 ($4412)

This is only £500 more, 20% of $3600 is £450, I am not even sure how they do it ! It makes the Friedman actually "cheap" when you think about it.

Every USA made amp (or everything outside of Europe) is subject to VAT and duty but Mesa stuff for some reason has a 40% mark up.   It's been going on for years and won't change any time soon.

RaymondLin

Anyway, sorry @bucket for disrailing the thread ! (love to get a Mesa myself but I feel like i am getting my ripped off a little in this country for buying one personally, compare to everything else) 

guitarfishbay

ICBM said:

guitarfishbay said:

It is definitely what I'd predict to be their best (in terms of potential sales) product in recent years.

You would think so, but I know for a fact that the Mini Rectifier sold very poorly here, and the same could be said of that.

I agree about the feature set and quality of Mesa seeming to justify the price - and it would, if you didn't know what the same amps sell for in the US. I know full well about all the usual stuff about shipping costs, import duty etc, but the plain fact is that other companies can sell US-made gear in Europe at far less of a markup, more typically 40-50% rather than the 100% that isn't far off the usual difference with Mesa.

I agree with Drew - be patient, wait for some other richer person to buy one new and not like it, and snap up a (relative) bargain second hand. At least Mesa stuff is good enough that lack of a warranty won't be such an issue.

I think the difference here is the Mark V is more popular than the Recto is these days.  And also anyone who played a Recto is surely aware that the 100 watt power section was a huge part of the tone.

I don't know many people GASing for Rectos from the younger crowd - my perception is that most people my age and younger don't like the big + loose aspect of it and want a 'tight' gain channel that doesn't need a boost.

I would definitely expect the Mark V 25 to do better than the MIni Recto anyway.

guitarfishbay

Totally with the 'be patient' advice.

My Roadster halfstack cost me £1700, but new would've been £3400.  So waiting (and it was a lot of waiting for the head) saved 50%.  I don't really miss the 4x12 much - I'd love to still own the head though.. at this rate I'll pick one up for £500 in a couple of years time what with how low Recto prices are currently (which would be both awesome and sad).

Bellycaster

I preferred the Mark V. 

I was tempted by demos of the older Express Amps, but I really didn't like what I heard from that Express Demo.

I don't think those demos tell the whole story though, it's almost like they deliberatley tried to make the 2 sound radically different.

monquixote

Just did a quick google and the Express 50 head which is about £1350 here is about £800 in the states. 

That makes me slightly sick.

RaymondLin

monquixote said:

Just did a quick google and the Express 50 head which is about £1350 here is about £800 in the states. 

That makes me slightly sick.

So if we look at Mesa stuff in a lower price bracket, do we still perceive them to be as good? it is like 50% more expensive here, but is it 50% better?

monquixote

I used to wonder why on US forums everyone had Mesas and then you discover that in the US Mesa's are actually less expensive than equivalent Marshalls and it becomes fairly obvious why.

Bucket

I know Mesas are a rip-off here, but I know also that I want a Mesa and this is the easiest way I have of getting one.

I probably won't be looking at secondhand because this 0% finance thing is so much easier for me - I'd rather not blow a big wedge of money in one go, but given that I have a regular income every month I can afford to take a bit of that to pay for the amp in instalments. Hence why I'm after a new amp, and it does have to be a Mesa, I'm just not that interested in anything else.

So yes - Mark V 25, Express 5:25+ or possibly the Express 5:50+, plus a 1x12 with a Vintage 30 in it, is the plan.

RaymondLin

monquixote said:

I used to wonder why on US forums everyone had Mesas and then you discover that in the US Mesa's are actually less expensive than equivalent Marshalls and it becomes fairly obvious why.

A secondhand Mesa TA15 goes for $500 over there...that is like £300 !!

From that point of view, it is a very very good amp for the money, but at £999 new?  You must be having a laugh.  Secondhand price here for a TA15 is around £500, and that is still like $800.

You can buy a new one in the states for $899 with free shipping.

It really has become the case of if you want a Mesa, just don't think about the price on the other side of the pond.