What to do? Real amp or modeler?

Nerine

If your budget allows, go Fractal over both the Helix and Kemper. 

CHRISB50

Jay100 said:

CHRISB50 said:

Jay100 said:

I’ve never been able to get a tube amp to sound good at ‘reasonable’ home volume despite my best efforts and a lot of money. 

Tried attenuators and amps with supposedly good master volumes, but the speaker still needs to move enough air to sound/feel good and that point is just too much, in my house anyway.

I bought a Quad Cortex and some Adam monitors in the end and haven’t looked back. Sounds great, has loads of flexibility and keeps my family happy. 

It’s never going to give the amp in the room feel, but it feels surprisingly good to play. 

Just my 2 cents!

Sure. I know what you mean.

To be honest the best home tube tone I've had was from a 100W JCM900 head I used to have. Sounded good at any volume. But a bit big and OTT for my uses now.

How do you find the Quad? 

I really like it. Had a Helix LT before which I was less keen on. The amps felt and sounded little ‘2D’ but the Quad Cortex feels better to play and the amps have a richer sound, if all those descriptions don’t sound like total nonsense!

The QC is getting better all the time now with the desktop editor being released and plugin integration on its way too.

The QC was actually the first modeler that piqued my interest. I got a bit put off by the lack of desktop SW and the delays in the plugin integration.

They do seem to be increasing in popularity again recently, with these new updates you mentioned.

I think once I've got the cash together I need to go and spend a day having a play with them all.

CHRISB50

Voxman said:

CHRISB50 said:

Voxman said:

The Vox Valvetronix VT20X and VT40X offer a convenient lightweight mix of valve and digital modelling. Ideal for home use and even jamming with friends, open mic nights and even smaller gigs, with a built in attenuator and headphone socket, these sound great and are incredibly versatile.

The valve isn't a gimmick that merely warns the sound but it's actually used as a power valve which is what gives a tone, feel and response much nearer to an all tube amp than digital modelling on its own can typically do. Even has bias settings. Best of both worlds perhaps?

Not something I'd considered. Cheers.

But with the amount of love dedicated modelers seem to be getting, I think I'm still headed down that route.

Depends on your needs and how much tweaking you're prepared to do. Modern mfx are not plug n play, and you' re likely to have a steep learning curve (but see below) I also don't recommend them for use with a guitar amp.  To get the best out of them and if you want to use their amp and cab models, studio monitoring headphones and FRFR powered speakers are the best approach.

Yes, I know some folk love using their mfx 4 cable with their tube amp. But real success stories are rare as most folk struggle with this set up. I've got 3 tube and 3 hybrid amps and my Pod Go sounds best through my Headrush FRFR 108s.  You can put an MFX through the fx return of an amp, whereby it's being used as a power amp only but youll likely want to turn the cab models off.

Although it doesn't fit my gigging needs and I'm returning it, I've been trying out the Valeton GP200 which I'm very impressed with. Simpler and less complex than my Pod Go it sounds really good and is as good as Pod Go tonally that has Helix modeling!  It feels very robust and well made with lots of good features. Very easy to get great tones from and even the factory patches are good.  These are terrific bang for buck and are well worth checking out. Sonicake, who make the Valeton, have a Facebook page that often have discounts and a no quibble 30 day return offer. 

It would be a modeler into a powered FRFR. I won't be running it through an actual amp.

CHRISB50

Nerine said:

If your budget allows, go Fractal over both the Helix and Kemper. 

I think it's a beyond my needs, and my funds unfortunately.

CHRISB50

CHRISB50 said:

Nerine said:

If your budget allows, go Fractal over both the Helix and Kemper. 

I think it's a beyond my needs, and my funds unfortunately.

@Nerine ;I might have been a bit hasty.

  I had some time yesterday, so did a little bit more digging. I didn't realise the FM3 was a thing. I know it's not as powerful as AxeFX3 but I assume the sounds are the same?

fretmeister

CHRISB50 said:

CHRISB50 said:

Nerine said:

If your budget allows, go Fractal over both the Helix and Kemper. 

I think it's a beyond my needs, and my funds unfortunately.

@Nerine ;I might have been a bit hasty.

  I had some time yesterday, so did a little bit more digging. I didn't realise the FM3 was a thing. I know it's not as powerful as AxeFX3 but I assume the sounds are the same?

IF you get an FM3 I think you have to be prepared to want to buy the extra footswitch as well - and at that point you might as well save up for the FM9.

It may not matter to you - but some modellers have really annoying fan cooling and others are passive.
It bothers me to the point that if I can hear the fan in a quiet room with nobody talking then I won't have it.

But other people are happy for a little tornado happening while playing - so that's completely subjective.

BeardyAndy

You've already had a mind melting amount of comments but I'll still add my 5 pence worth!

I was a good old fashioned amp snob, totally got the convenience of modellers but tried a few and they just weren't for me. I was having issues with my Orange amp head so I took a punt on a Boss Nextone as a spare, this amp really threw a spanner in the works because I loved it. Sold my valve amps and gigged this exclusively, initially mic'd up and later straight to the PA.

This planted a seed though and after some experimenting I did away with the amp all together and ended up with a TwoNotes CabM on the end of my trusty pedal board, took a few goes to find a preamp I liked but in the end I got there with the onboard preamp and a Mythos Olympus, always on but with the gain right down.

In a different twist I quit the band (Lead guitar) in favour of concentrating on bass, I had the bass and could play it through the TwoNotes but the rest of the rig was very guitar orientated. I made the decision to try an HX Stomp as that could in theory do a bit of bedroom guitar or act as a fly rig if I ever get asked to dep and cover all I need on bass.

It's an absolutely incredible sounding bit of kit, I've had the GT1000 Core and the Hotone Ampero plus tried countless others my buddy has gone through. All of which i found a bit "meh" but the HX is brilliant. I've a couple of favourite amps on there and have toyed with the idea of buying said amp but talked myself out of it because I already own them... kind of!

What I need to invest in is a good FRFR cab and a sub for the bass but other than that all my GAS has gone, I keep finding new effect and utilities that make me smile.

In short, try an HX Stomp. It's worth a shot if you ask me.

My rig is now TC Polytune-EHX Lizard Queen-Hudson Elec Motorcycle-HX Stomp. At home i'm using headphones, studio straight to pa and I plug it into my audio interface to record. You don't need the tuner but it frees up a switch.

(Plus they really hold their value if you ever need to sell it on!)

Clecko

On a related side note, has anyone tried the new Line6 Original amps from the Helix 3.70/3.71 update? I've found them incredible. The Carillon, Aristocrat and Clarity have immediately become three of my favourite sounds in the Helix. The Kinetic is also amazing - incredible responsiveness to the guitar's volume knob. 

I play virtually exclusively at home. I have a Marshall 1962 'Bluesbreaker', a Laney VC-15 and a Yamaha THX 10. Reading the OP on this thread has just made me realise I haven't turned any of them on in at least two years.

I've had the Helix since 2018 or 2019 so it's definitely not a first flush of lust - I love it. I'm a straightforward user and don't want to get bogged down in menus and settings or succumb to option paralysis. I usually chuck an amp in, a simple delay and reverb and a dirt pedal or two and off I go. I play through a real cabinet and a power amp so don't tend to bother with the simulation cabs or IRs. 

With the 3.70 update, I made a simple patch with the Carillon amp, Dynamic Ambience reverb and Transistor Tape delay. All the new Line6 amps have a boost parameter so I assigned that to a pedal and... played. I had to adjust a couple of things - treble and presence to suit my room and cab, then drive level to suit my taste - and... that was it. Job done. 

As an experiment, I tried putting the same amp and amp settings and reverb pedal into the Jason Sadites patch template (essentially a bit of studio-style EQ with a low and high shelf and a touch of compression). It sounded a bit different (and would quite possibly sound better in a mix or live), but in a blind test I'd have been unable to convincingly choose a favourite. 

This debate has ended for me. For my use case, modelling has run away with it. And Line6 repeatedly release massive firmware updates that make everything even better. Perfect. 

Vintage65

I'm currently using a Kemper, but if it broke I think I would spend the money on a decent PC and go totally ITB, as the latest amp sim software has improved quite a bit.

fretmeister

Vintage65 said:

I'm currently using a Kemper, but if it broke I think I would spend the money on a decent PC and go totally ITB, as the latest amp sim software has improved quite a bit.

I like that idea for when my Helix rack finally craps out, but at the same time I've been to several shows where a break was needed to allow all the laptops to get rebooted!

Vintage65

fretmeister said:

Vintage65 said:

I'm currently using a Kemper, but if it broke I think I would spend the money on a decent PC and go totally ITB, as the latest amp sim software has improved quite a bit.

I like that idea for when my Helix rack finally craps out, but at the same time I've been to several shows where a break was needed to allow all the laptops to get rebooted!

I'm a home studio user, so some sort of hardware player would make sense for on the road situations, and I don't think you have to break the bank to get something decent these days either.

CHRISB50

@Fretmeister I can make the 3 button layout work for what I'd use it for (an FM9 is probably a bit OTT for me and what I'd use it for). I'm not one for complicated signal paths. I use reverb  / delay and that's about it. I've watched a fair few @JohnCordy videos. He has one about the 3 button layout and I think I know it should work for me from that. Fans weren't something I'd considered, but I can understand how it could be annoying.

I assume as you're a Helix owner, it is passive cooling.

I'll look into the Kemper, QC and FM3. 

Really, I just want the best amp sounds I can get, with some effects as an added bonus.

@BeardyAndy I have looked at the Stomp/StompXL. As I don't really need an expression pedal, and the price is a lot more attractive. I will keep it in mind. Ta.

fretmeister

Yes - I've got the Helix rack. It's the heart of my recording rig and it's my interface / soundcard etc.
I've been very pleased with it.

I suspect I'd be just as happy with any of the top line modellers. I'm pretty good as getting the tones I want from most things.

CHRISB50

@nero1701 I saw in the "What do you play through at home?" thread you are currently using an FM3.

And I remember you were selling, or have just sold a Kemper set up in the classifieds (I'm honestly not stalking you).

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think of the FM3? 

I'm presuming you preferred it to the Kemper? Why?

Thanks.

nero1701

CHRISB50 said:

@nero1701 I saw in the "What do you play through at home?" thread you are currently using an FM3.

And I remember you were selling, or have just sold a Kemper set up in the classifieds (I'm honestly not stalking you).

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think of the FM3? 

I'm presuming you preferred it to the Kemper? Why?

Thanks.

Hey,

My journey has a couple of twists and turns!!

Started with a QC which I thought was great until I tried the FM3, then FM3, then the Kemper(It's sold) and now back to the FM3.

I sold my original FM3 to fund a Kemper, genuinely liked the ease of use with the Kemper..then sold the Kemper to go back to the FM3.

I like the sounds more, It sounds more like an amp imo than the Kemper, I find the editor is easier to use(Carefully not deep diving), and I like the footprint more.

I use the FM3 as my effects unit while gigging which in turn also supports me as a back up as I can go to the desk incase my amp goes pop. I've set up a Morningstar MC6 with the FM3 and can gig with this 6 button controller and leave the FM3 next to the amp. I'm now looking to buy bluetooth midi thingie(Still researching). 

CHRISB50

nero1701 said:

CHRISB50 said:

@nero1701 I saw in the "What do you play through at home?" thread you are currently using an FM3.

And I remember you were selling, or have just sold a Kemper set up in the classifieds (I'm honestly not stalking you).

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think of the FM3? 

I'm presuming you preferred it to the Kemper? Why?

Thanks.

Hey,

My journey has a couple of twists and turns!!

Started with a QC which I thought was great until I tried the FM3, then FM3, then the Kemper(It's sold) and now back to the FM3.

I sold my original FM3 to fund a Kemper, genuinely liked the ease of use with the Kemper..then sold the Kemper to go back to the FM3.

I like the sounds more, It sounds more like an amp imo than the Kemper, I find the editor is easier to use(Carefully not deep diving), and I like the footprint more.

I use the FM3 as my effects unit while gigging which in turn also supports me as a back up as I can go to the desk incase my amp goes pop. I've set up a Morningstar MC6 with the FM3 and can gig with this 6 button controller and leave the FM3 next to the amp. I'm now looking to buy bluetooth midi thingie(Still researching). 

Thanks mate.

Slartibartfarst42

The answer is simple - you get a modeler. I did that a number of years ago and I haven't regretted the decision for a moment. Nothing would get me back to a valve amp.

CHRISB50

Slartibartfarst42 said:

The answer is simple - you get a modeler. I did that a number of years ago and I haven't regretted the decision for a moment. Nothing would get me back to a valve amp.

Yes. I will be getting a modeller. 

Still sorting out funds at the moment. 

strtdv

Do you already have an amp, and would you intend to keep it after getting a modeller?

I picked up my first modeller this week after 20 years of amps, a Helix LT. 
I'm seriously impressed. It doesn't have the same in the room feeling as a real amp because you don't have the same power hitting you in the chest (I bought the Helix specifically to use with headphones at home as I've a 4 year old with an early bedtime), but the pick attack and volume responsiveness are really impressive.
Compared to the old Pods etc there is hardly a trace of digital-ness once you get the global EQ right, and the sheer versatility of the unit is incredible.
It also does a very good impression of a lot of my pedals, to the point where my pedalboard is effectively redundant

Roland

strtdv said:

Do you already have an amp, and would you intend to keep it after getting a modeller?

I’ve kept a 2x12 50W combo in case I ever need one, although I haven’t turned it on for several years. I’ve also kept Cry Baby and TS-9, and have occasionally used them for reference.