Advice please.........2x12 cab ..not getting sound I want

Dominic

Great quality oversize 2x12 loaded with V30 and Greenback........head is a Soldano 30
Whats wrong ?.......sounds a bit too compressed and doesn't fill the room ...also very dark and ,dare I say, a bit muffled
What to do ?
Maybe one or both speakers are wrong or the combination is dark and uninspiring despite being quite a staple combination
Which speaker is making it dark and compressed ?
Which speaker has a crisper edge to the sound at modest volume ?
Which to replace (if not both ) and what to install in it's stead ?

Petepassion

You’re more than welcome to try out my cabs, jcm800 2x12 and 4x12 and an orange 4x12.
i have the rehearsal room booked for Thursday evening. But probably bit too much of a trek.

Dave_Mc

It's not a stereo cab, is it?

Dominic

Lovely offer Pete .......Thanks ,
It's a touch too far ......I ride a unicycle 

Dominic

Dave_Mc said:

It's not a stereo cab, is it?

no

leerocker

take the v30 out mate and chuck another greenback in dom

ICBM

Greenback and V30 is a very bad combination in my opinion, despite its apparent popularity, which I really don’t understand. It’s extremely mismatched and won’t get the best out of either speaker - less to do with either speaker alone and more the way they sound together.

Either replace the V30 with a G12H-30 (preferably Heritage) for a more classic/blues-rock sound, or replace the Greenback with a Creamback G12H-75 or Classic Lead 80 for a modern/hard rock sound, or a G12T-75 for metal.

Even two Greenbacks would be much better as leerocker said.

Power_Freak

This is why I was never a fan of combining speakers, it's all a bit of a dark art to me.

I'm assuming the soldano has switchable impedance: try each speaker in isolation (don't crank it given the greenback's rating, be sensible with it) and see which you like best. Then I'd buy a matching version of whichever wins (unless you want to go the whole hog and replace both, that's a whole different conversation all together)

(I know others love combining speakers, so there'll likely be a long list of people telling me some new combination to try)

ICBM

Power_Freak said:

I'm assuming the soldano has switchable impedance: try each speaker in isolation (don't crank it given the greenback's rating, be sensible with it) and see which you like best. Then I'd buy a matching version of whichever wins (unless you want to go the whole hog and replace both, that's a whole different conversation all together)

This is good advice. Although some combinations of two speakers are very nice, some just don’t work, which can also be amp-dependent, and two of the same type is definitely more predictable.

I’ve also remembered why the V30/Greenback pair became popular… Matchless used it in the 1990s. However, their customised V30 was very different from a standard one and actually closer to a G12H-30, which wasn’t available at the time. A standard V30 isn’t the same at all, and really doesn’t work with a Greenback.

Dominic

Thanks for all the advice chaps

MikeP

Take one out and try each as a detuned setup? Save buying another speaker maybe.

maharg101

Are the speakers definitely in phase ? Might be an "obvious" point, and might not result in what you've described, but I offer it nonetheless.

Dominic

i think so but what would make them out of phase.......they don't sound thin
they sound dark ,a bit over-compressed and don't fill a room

Dominic

Gents,
Somebody (not here) has offered me a pair of Alnico Red Fangs .......I know they are a great speaker and have had one in a Vox AC15 and loved it BUT would they be a good choice for a Soldano slo30 Marshall type sound ?
What will they sound like ?

Modulus_Amps

Are the speakers in a diagonal cab or side by side? if diagonal it makes a big difference which speaker is on the bottom.

Make sure the speakers are in phase, check the wiring on them. Someone bought one of my cabs second hand recently and the previous owner had swapped a speaker and got the phase wrong, the cab sounded horrible. 

If you are struggling with compression then v30's would be my suggestion, trying each speaker by itself is a great idea though.
I don't know anything about the Alnico Red fangs, but normally Alnico speakers are more compressed when pushed.

Personally I find the Soldano sound to be quite compressed, more so than a typical Marshall amp, have you got another amp to play through the cabinet to make sure it is the cabinet that is failing? 

Dominic

good suggestions.......yes I can try another amp

Modulus_Amps

The other thing to consider is oversized cabs are great at boosting low bass and low mids, which can sound great on its own or could mean the amp is struggling to fight through all that extra low end "help"

If your amp has a resonance/depth control turn it down as the cab is adding resonance already.

Power_Freak

Dominic said:

Gents,
Somebody (not here) has offered me a pair of Alnico Red Fangs .......I know they are a great speaker and have had one in a Vox AC15 and loved it BUT would they be a good choice for a Soldano slo30 Marshall type sound ?
What will they sound like ?

Speaking in generalities:
Eminence are very sensitive speakers (may be a plus or a minus depending on your view) - typically very midfocussed (at least there's a bass and treble roll-off in most eminences). This gives them a very "punchy" sort of sound that cuts through a mix really well, typically at the expense of "complexity" - I think this is a big reason why eminences are so popular, in a shoot-out loud, punchy and mids tend to sound "best".

The Alnico compressing when pushed probably won't be a huge deal as you'll be running a 30w head into a 100w cab at that point, I assume the RF should have a heavy enough magnet to hold up to what you're throwing at it.

It's been years since I've tried the RF in particular though (and never used a SLO), so I could be totally wrong on this - take all I say with a pinch of salt, etc. etc.

Dominic

Modulus_Amps said:

The other thing to consider is oversized cabs are great at boosting low bass and low mids, which can sound great on its own or could mean the amp is struggling to fight through all that extra low end "help"

If your amp has a resonance/depth control turn it down as the cab is adding resonance already.

good point

hywelg

Nearly every speaker problem question can be answered by ........ EVM12L

I have a Red Fang and an EV in an oversize vertical Dumble style oval rear ported cab and it is truly great. The EV gives, well, authority, when pushed hard .  And the RF is subtle and forgiving at lower volumes but still holds up when pushed, but by that point the EV is dominant.

@Dominic ; I think you know Dave Buckley? He's got a Gold and an EV in his 2x12 that I built and he's a Marshall man through and through, it sounds at least as good as the 1960A 4x12. The Gold gives it a more strident top end where the RF is softer and easier on the ear, but Dave likes the bite.

Dave_Mc

Dominic said:

Dave_Mc said:

It's not a stereo cab, is it?

no

I figured you'd already thought of that and that it'd be too easy! I was hoping you could easily try them individually to see how you liked them alone.

ICBM said:

Greenback and V30 is a very bad combination in my opinion, despite its apparent popularity, which I really don’t understand. It’s extremely mismatched and won’t get the best out of either speaker - less to do with either speaker alone and more the way they sound together.

Either replace the V30 with a G12H-30 (preferably Heritage) for a more classic/blues-rock sound, or replace the Greenback with a Creamback G12H-75 or Classic Lead 80 for a modern/hard rock sound, or a G12T-75 for metal.

Even two Greenbacks would be much better as leerocker said.

Yeah pretty much. Or even two V30s- I haven't tried the SLO but two V30s sounded pretty great with my Jet City head when I tried them again recently.

Power_Freak said:

Dominic said:

Gents,
Somebody (not here) has offered me a pair of Alnico Red Fangs .......I know they are a great speaker and have had one in a Vox AC15 and loved it BUT would they be a good choice for a Soldano slo30 Marshall type sound ?
What will they sound like ?

Speaking in generalities:
Eminence are very sensitive speakers (may be a plus or a minus depending on your view) - typically very midfocussed (at least there's a bass and treble roll-off in most eminences). This gives them a very "punchy" sort of sound that cuts through a mix really well, typically at the expense of "complexity" - I think this is a big reason why eminences are so popular, in a shoot-out loud, punchy and mids tend to sound "best".

Are they actually that efficient, though? I know they're rated as if they are, but to my ears they're nowhere near as efficient as their rating would suggest.  EDIT: LOL I didn't mean that to sound so aggressive, sorry!  I also agree with you (and @ICBM ) about mixing- there are a couple of known killer combinations which sound excellent, but outside of that it's a bit of a dark art as you said. If you already have the speakers it's a shot to nothing to try combinations, but if you don't it's pretty much a crapshoot... and very amp-dependent as @ICBM said. And great points by @Modulus_Amps too.

(I agree about their voicing, though, at least for most of their speakers... they have a funny lower midrange thing going on, at least most of the ones I've tried.)

Dominic said:

Gents,
Somebody (not here) has offered me a pair of Alnico Red Fangs .......I know they are a great speaker and have had one in a Vox AC15 and loved it BUT would they be a good choice for a Soldano slo30 Marshall type sound ?
What will they sound like ?

Probably more Voxy, I would guess. I've got a pair of them here (open-backed Genz Benz combo, though) and I guess I could try them through my Jet City (I'm sure I've tried it before, I just forget!)... the problem is that's probably not going to be close enough to your rig to really tell you a whole heap.