Which Small Monitors?

Rocker

Studio monitors are designed to let you hear everything on the tape. And I mean everything. As a result they are poor for listening to music. Hi-Fi is not as revealing as studio monitors. Different tasks. Use monitors for the recording and confirm your end result on the hi-fi. But play music on your monitors and you will run a mile...

guitargeek62

^ completely understandable. Music playback will purely be a secondary use, if at all. That said, is there any reason why running an EQ between source and monitors wouldn't allow me to dial in some "colour" to ease the listening experience?

 

@Fretwired - can I ask how large a room yours are in? Budget isn't an issue, nor space really... just aesthetics! After all, there's not that much size between the HS5 and 7s...

Clarky

lil' tip... I have my HS7's mounted on ISOAcoustic stands

2 benefits:

- the low end tightens right up

- the monitors are higher so that the tweeters are the same height as your ears.. makes quite a difference..

guitargeek62

Cheers, I'll budget for a pair of those too!

Snap

Rocker said:

Studio monitors are designed to let you hear everything on the tape. And I mean everything. As a result they are poor for listening to music. Hi-Fi is not as revealing as studio monitors. Different tasks. Use monitors for the recording and confirm your end result on the hi-fi. But play music on your monitors and you will run a mile...

I completely disagree! That's a personal opinion Rocker. As I said, I actually like listening to full resolution audio on them, using a proper bit of software, the music sounds great. Extremely open and crystal clear.

Clarky

hi-fi generally "colours" the sound to make it sound more exciting.. this generally means that the lows and highs are boost..

monitors try to be as neutral as possible..

switching from hi-fi to studio monitoring is like taking off a pair of shades when looking at a picture

Fretwired

guitargeek62 said:

^ completely understandable. Music playback will purely be a secondary use, if at all. That said, is there any reason why running an EQ between source and monitors wouldn't allow me to dial in some "colour" to ease the listening experience?

 

@Fretwired - can I ask how large a room yours are in? Budget isn't an issue, nor space really... just aesthetics! After all, there's not that much size between the HS5 and 7s...

@guitargeek62 Approximately 18' x 18' ..

Clarky

Rocker said:

Studio monitors are designed to let you hear everything on the tape. And I mean everything. As a result they are poor for listening to music. Hi-Fi is not as revealing as studio monitors. Different tasks. Use monitors for the recording and confirm your end result on the hi-fi. But play music on your monitors and you will run a mile...

that's not completely true..

the prob with monitors is.. although they are supposed to be "flat"... they all sound different.. so clearly they're not flat.. lol..

when I listen to music through NS-10's it puts my teeth on edge... my HS7's are far more pleasant [apparently they are supposed to be like NS-10's but without the low freq roll-off happening quite so high up the spectrum..

compare that with my boy's huge Mackie's.. they sound fkn epic.. maybe a little too epic..

guitargeek62

Clarky said:

hi-fi generally "colours" the sound to make it sound more exciting.. this generally means that the lows and highs are boost..

monitors try to be as neutral as possible..

switching from hi-fi to studio monitoring is like taking off a pair of shades when looking at a picture

So is there any reason to think this can't be adequately be replicated with some careful EQ shaping before the monitors? Seems logical enough to me but I've never gone down this route before!

 

Thanks @Fretwired, I'm going to figure out how I can sneak the HS7s in methinks - it'll be easier to do that than get the HS5s now and then decide at a later date that I want the sub too. Plus there's barely any difference in price between the sizes!

Clarky

Fretwired said:

guitargeek62 said:

^ completely understandable. Music playback will purely be a secondary use, if at all. That said, is there any reason why running an EQ between source and monitors wouldn't allow me to dial in some "colour" to ease the listening experience?

 

@Fretwired - can I ask how large a room yours are in? Budget isn't an issue, nor space really... just aesthetics! After all, there's not that much size between the HS5 and 7s...

@guitargeek62 Approximately 18' x 18' ..

a nice space... you should hopefully have enough room to get the monitors at least 1m from any wall..

if the monitors are big [8" woofer or more] you'll want them further from you on stands [with IsoAc stands on top]

if they're smaller you can place them on your desk about 2m apart [on IsoAc stands]

make sure that the speakers and the listening position form an equilateral triangle.. point them in at 60 degree angles so that the monitors point right at your head.. ensure that the tweeters are at ear-height

in a room that size, you may need to sort at least the worst the acoustic probs..

tip.. on the back wall behind you.. a book shelf full of books and other crap is great for soaking up some reflections... plus you may want to consider [if the room is a large empty space] some acoustic foam panels that you stick to the walls [either side of you, mid-way between the listening position and the monitors] and on the ceiling in the same point..

the mirror tip: sit in the listening position and get someone to hold a mirror against the wall.. look in the mirror.. as they move the mirror along the wall, eventually you'll be able to see the monitors.. that is where the sound will bounce off the wall towards you.. and so that's where the treatment panel goes to kill the early reflections.. do the same on the other wall and the ceiling... some treatment on the wall right behind the monitors is good too..

you don't need the room completely 'dead' [cos that sounds shite and sterile anyhow].. but you do want its strongest issues dealt with

Clarky

guitargeek62 said:

Clarky said:

hi-fi generally "colours" the sound to make it sound more exciting.. this generally means that the lows and highs are boost..

monitors try to be as neutral as possible..

switching from hi-fi to studio monitoring is like taking off a pair of shades when looking at a picture

So is there any reason to think this can't be adequately be replicated with some careful EQ shaping before the monitors? Seems logical enough to me but I've never gone down this route before!

 

Thanks @Fretwired, I'm going to figure out how I can sneak the HS7s in methinks - it'll be easier to do that than get the HS5s now and then decide at a later date that I want the sub too. Plus there's barely any difference in price between the sizes!

to do this with EQ, you need a really flat mic, a spectrum analyser, a tone generator and a pair of mono graphic or parametric EQ's [with lots and lots of bands]..

the prob is.. if you look at the freq characteristics of a speaker, it's not so much as a valley between two hills [a bass hill and a treble hill].. it's more like a mini mountain range with peaks and troughs all over the place..

the best solution is really to get the best pair of monitors you can afford, and the try to kill off the strongest acoustic aggro in the room..

it won't be Abbey Road... but you'll be in good shape to knock out sensible mixes...

new monitor tip: before you mix anything through them... spend many hours playing CD's through them that you know well.. you need to get used to how they sound.. and when mixing down, do so with a reference song in the project so you can check your EQ choices..

Rocker

@Snap, @Clarky.

My experience of monitors is rather limited.  Limited to listening to a pair of Proacs.  Monitors that were targeted at the hi-fi market. And I found them too revealing and detailed.  I don't listen to music to analyse who played what or when or how many splices were there on the master tape etc. That detail I could hear through the Proacs.  I like music to sound smooth, to wash over me and to involve me in the listening experience.  Ultra detailed speakers do not do that job for me.  I use B&W speakers as the sound is what I want and like.

YMMV.

wave100

Well I think the point is to get a mix that sounds <pretty much> the same whether you are listening on poundshop earbuds, a telly or a full range PA system. If it translates well, the job's a good'un - and I would second Clarky's advice, decent set of monitors and a bit of room treatment as the way to go if you can. 

I love listening to everything ( films, music, games) through my Focal Alpha 65 monitors in my (untreated) living room. I just wish I didn't live in a flat so I could really blast them!

Snap

@Rocker, thats what I was getting at - its all personal opinion and preference.

Tell you when it really hit me, as to how much I liked listening to hi res audio albums on my monitors - Nine Inch Nails last album, Hesitation Marks. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross really know how to record, mix and produce. When I bought the deluxe CD, I got a lossless audio dl of the album, and a hi res audiophile master dl too. The audiophile master is the "true recording" as in not compressed and made louder for the mass market. So, the audio is full if you will, with all the original dynamics of the recording.

In honesty, you can only hear the real difference on my monitors - things like added resonance on reverbs, sub bass, etc. Very impressive.

I thought you'd be into all that, what with your audio enthusiasm?

@Clarky and your comments on EQ. I love it when you talk dirty.

Rocker

Good points @Snap and well made. I use piano as my reference for sound. A concert grand is an imposing and impressive instrument. Get the sound of a piano right and I am in hi-fi heaven. A few notes is all I need to hear to know if the sound is right. Sound is personal of course so what is right for me might be too dull for you. If you enjoy what you hear, it is right for you. So stick with it.

Snap

I concur Sir Rocker.

All the rest is just spouting off.

Now, can we please have a discussion about regulated mains supplies??

PolarityMan

For what it's worth I have some KRK 5's and I'm liking them a lot. Far more detailed than when I was mixing through Hifi speakers. I didn't compare many because I got them from the classifieds here at a really nice price but I'm quite living them.

guitargeek62

I went back and A/B'd the HS5, 7, & 8s today (thanks to Yamaha Soho's rather handy switching rig!). I did the comparison by playing some tracks through them that I know very well - I was actually very happy with how all of them sounded for music playback too so that's a nice bonus - I must have odd ears.

• HS5 - In isolation I think I'd be [i]very[/i] happy with these; superb clarity through the mids and treble (in particular), the bass was clear too, but much quieter in comparison. That said, it wasn't too apparent until I switched to it's bigger brothers.
• HS7 - Fantastic all-rounder, slightly less clarity in the top than the HS5, but very clear mids & bass. Sounded very well balanced across the mix though to my ears.
• HS8 - Easily the best option from a tonal point, but they're never going to work for the space I'll be using them in. These had the top-end clarity of the HS5s, and then a great strong and clear mid & bass range too - you could notably picked out parts a good octave or two below the HS5s.

I also tried each of them with the Yamaha HS sub-woofer; seemed like a very good unit and it complimented the HS5 very nicely, however it just felt strange having the bass coming from a separate source, and I wouldn't be getting masses of benefit from going from a HS5 2.1 setup over a pair of HS7s. It looks like I'll be joining @Fretwired with a pair of the 7s.

Snap

excellent

I couldn't get the HS7s on my desk. See, now you're making me think I need a sub.......

which of course I do heheh!

guitargeek62

Haha, do it! I'm going back in this weekend for a second listen, and also to try the KRK's against them in Wunjo just on the off-chance that I prefer the sound of those too.