Soldano Astro 20...with added digital stuff?

digitalscream

This just popped up on Facebook:



Sounds very Soldano, which is obviously a good sign. But it's also the first amp they've made with IRs built in and software to control them, and it has MIDI too.

At £2k, it's not actually beyond the realms of reasonable for a gigging amp either. Given the choice of this or a Victory in the £1400-£2k range, I'd absolutely go for this one.

Jetfire

John Browne has done a video too, 

Musicman20

It'll no doubt sound great, but not sure on the galaxy gimmick. 

digitalscream

Musicman20 said:

It'll no doubt sound great, but not sure on the galaxy gimmick. 

Yeah, they're really just voicings. There's no indication (anywhere!) of what can be done with MIDI, but I suspect they'll be MIDI-selectable - which will go a long way to changing the way the amp is used.

Jetfire

digitalscream said:

Musicman20 said:

It'll no doubt sound great, but not sure on the galaxy gimmick. 

Yeah, they're really just voicings. There's no indication (anywhere!) of what can be done with MIDI, but I suspect they'll be MIDI-selectable - which will go a long way to changing the way the amp is used.

John explains more about the midi in his video 

tekbow

I've been seeing some negative reactions on FB et  because digital control, Mike wouldn't have designed this etc.

Then I remind them of the other digitally controlled Soldano that has one shared set of knobs and as many "channels" or presets as you can come up with variations of control placements.

Its pinky purple coloured, and very expensive these days.

This is absolutely the kind of thing Mike would have designed had he had the time.

And in fact, with some help, he already did.

Dumodal

Gives me some Suhr PT-15 vibes, I think they are aiming for the more modern player that wants the best of both worlds, I like it.

HT986M2

Going from the Anderton's video it sounds great.  I didn't think it sounded great at first, but it got much better throughout the remainder of video.   If I could justify £2k (plus the cost of a good attenuator) on a home use amp then I'd be very tempted.  It's a far more palatable price than £3k for the SLO30.

 The 'Galaxy' looks to be just a voicing switch.  I don't know why they couldn't have just called it that and avoided any ambiguity or confusion.

The SLO30 was my dream amp for a long time, but I played it last year and just didn't gel with it.  The Friedman Runt sitting next to it sounded much better to me.  So I'd definitely try it first.

Fortheloveofguitar

Not for me. Doesn’t sound that great, very harsh and fizzy sounding. 

tekbow

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Not for me. Doesn’t sound that great, very harsh and fizzy sounding. 

Some call that the soldano sizzle, and it's why I always say they don't sound like people think they're gonna.

In a mix, it cuts right thru.

ICBM

I wonder which part of this will die and make the amp worthless in 20 years time?

Hint: probably not the valve part.

For clarity - I love modern digital kit. But mixing the two technologies in the same box is a bad idea.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

I wonder which part of this will die and make the amp worthless in 20 years time?

Hint: probably not the valve part.

For clarity - I love modern digital kit. But mixing the two technologies in the same box is a bad idea.

To be fair, I'd hope that in 20 years' time we've got a much better alternative to IRs, so it won't matter

HT986M2

tekbow said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Not for me. Doesn’t sound that great, very harsh and fizzy sounding. 

Some call that the soldano sizzle, and it's why I always say they don't sound like people think they're gonna.

In a mix, it cuts right thru.

Interesting.  That's the exact thing I didn't like when I tried it out in person.  I incorrectly assumed it was because I wasn't able to push it enough in-store to get rid of the fizz (like certain Marshall amps) but I'm happy to know it wasn't necessarily something I wasn't doing wrong, and is just the inherent character of the amps.

digitalscream

HT986M2 said:

tekbow said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Not for me. Doesn’t sound that great, very harsh and fizzy sounding. 

Some call that the soldano sizzle, and it's why I always say they don't sound like people think they're gonna.

In a mix, it cuts right thru.

Interesting.  That's the exact thing I didn't like when I tried it out in person.  I incorrectly assumed it was because I wasn't able to push it enough in-store to get rid of the fizz (like certain Marshall amps) but I'm happy to know it wasn't necessarily something I wasn't doing wrong, and is just the inherent character of the amps.

Yeah, the Jet City amps were the same. On their own, it sounds like it's fizz, but in a band mix (live or recorded) it translates into the trademark Soldano "zing". In my experience, at least with the kind of sounds I like to use, you kind of need a certain amount of fizz for any kind of high gain in a mix otherwise you have to compensate with far too much volume.

Fortheloveofguitar

tekbow said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Not for me. Doesn’t sound that great, very harsh and fizzy sounding. 

Some call that the soldano sizzle, and it's why I always say they don't sound like people think they're gonna.

In a mix, it cuts right thru.

Definitely! 

That’s why I sold my SLO 30 on quickly. I compared it side by side with my Cornford MK50 and the Cornford slayed it. 

The MK50 sounds like a much more refined and smooth SLO, much more dynamic. 

tekbow

digitalscream said:

HT986M2 said:

tekbow said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

Not for me. Doesn’t sound that great, very harsh and fizzy sounding. 

Some call that the soldano sizzle, and it's why I always say they don't sound like people think they're gonna.

In a mix, it cuts right thru.

Interesting.  That's the exact thing I didn't like when I tried it out in person.  I incorrectly assumed it was because I wasn't able to push it enough in-store to get rid of the fizz (like certain Marshall amps) but I'm happy to know it wasn't necessarily something I wasn't doing wrong, and is just the inherent character of the amps.

Yeah, the Jet City amps were the same. On their own, it sounds like it's fizz, but in a band mix (live or recorded) it translates into the trademark Soldano "zing". In my experience, at least with the kind of sounds I like to use, you kind of need a certain amount of fizz for any kind of high gain in a mix otherwise you have to compensate with far too much volume.

Agreed. Mike was/is a player and someone who gigs. He designed and built the amps on his own and voiced it to cut thru in live and studio settings.

Those settings being in the 80s in the United States west coast when your speaker cabs were the main source of volume on stage, and had to work in a band context. The reason the poweramp section stays clean at high volume is he wanted there to be as little difference between low volume and high volume as poss, unlike a 2203, so they'd work in Studios too, without deafening everyone.

I always use satch as an example. Forget the amplifier used, but have you ever heard his tone in isolation? A can of bees thru ripped speakers and a mic with a broken diaphragm. But in a mix....

ICBM said:

I wonder which part of this will die and make the amp worthless in 20 years time?

Hint: probably not the valve part.

For clarity - I love modern digital kit. But mixing the two technologies in the same box is a bad idea.

I agree, and yes I was the one making comparisons to the X99 but I would be being disingenuous if I didn't recognise the difference.

The difference being that the X99 is digitally controlled with an analog interface. The average user has no real access to the software/digital component, they just follow the instructions, set it up and it works. Hence why they're still sought after and very expensive 30 years later.

With modern digital control users experience users expect to have a bluetooth connected app, apps being In my experience, notoriously short lived things in any given version.

The X99 doesn't need to be supported because it's a standalone package.

I personally think the software in the Astro20 is more at risk of being dropped from support before the digital hardware ever dies. Will they keep supporting the app UI in 10 years? 15? What if they don't? Will they update firmware to something new? Will they bother doing that? If they don't, the software will eventually become incompatible with contemporaneous Operating Systems.

Meanwhile, I'll still have an SLO, or JCA, or HR50 that works the same way it always did.

richardhomer

ICBM said:

I wonder which part of this will die and make the amp worthless in 20 years time?

Hint: probably not the valve part.

For clarity - I love modern digital kit. But mixing the two technologies in the same box is a bad idea.

On a more positive note, it’ll out last me…

pt22

ICBM said:

I wonder which part of this will die and make the amp worthless in 20 years time?

Hint: probably not the valve part.

For clarity - I love modern digital kit. But mixing the two technologies in the same box is a bad idea.

I tend to agree. IMHO this type of product falls under negligent or (at best) unintended planned obsolescence. 

We all know modern digital products have a lifespan shorter than analog kit, whether that be due to parts failure/compatibility, or software abandonment. (Side eye towards UA OX) We can still buy those when we make the decision to take that risk. I have a Spark Mini for example and I expect the physical product to out last the software support at some point.

Forcing that type of tech into a device which typically lasts much longer is unnecessary. 

digitalscream

It really kinda depends on how they've implemented it. I mean...it's got USB audio out and needs to be able to transfer files. If, for example, they've done it in the simplest way possible (ie class compliant audio and mass storage) then it will - in theory - remain compatible with all systems, pretty much forever (or as long as connector adapters are available).

If they've gone for something completely proprietary, then...yeah, that functionality lives for as long as the company maintains support.

With that said, even if the app is killed tomorrow and the associated in-amp functionality stopped working immediately, it would still have more functionality than any other Soldano amp out there. The rest of it - the digital control and MIDI storage - works independently of that and is no different to any other digitally-controlled analogue gear.

Fun fact: Mike Soldano was working on a Jet City amp with MIDI and full digital control about 10 years ago, the JCA20H FLEX, but they only made two prototypes despite everyone screaming for it. Gotta wonder if any of that DNA ended up in the Astro.

tekbow

digitalscream said:

Fun fact: Mike Soldano was working on a Jet City amp with MIDI and full digital control about 10 years ago, the JCA20H FLEX, but they only made two prototypes despite everyone screaming for it. Gotta wonder if any of that DNA ended up in the Astro.

In my unqualified view, I'd hope a bit, and even if not, I imagine Mike said something like "you know I was working on a thing a bunch of years back....".

There is something about the digital elements being "powered by synergy".

Daiganzen

I tend to agree on the digital stuff failing or becoming obsolescence and that is why having an external box such has torpedo or Ox is better as that can easily be replaced and tech moves on. (Or it Breaks) I doubt the board that runs all the fancy stuff in this amp can be replaced that easy