Vintage Hollowbody Guitars

lovestrat74

After seeing the recent FS thread from @jumping@shadows I am having some serious GAS issues with regards to "budget" vintage hollowbody guitars. 

I will never be able to afford a Fender or Gibson from the "golden" era, so if I ever did buy vintage it would probably be one of the other brands like, Harmony, Silvertone, Kay etc.

I love the gritty, lo-fi, blues tone of guys like Dan Auerbach, so thinking something with goldfoils would be a fun guitar to make some noise with.  I also like the fuller, rounded neck profiles attributed to these guitars.

I am aware that these brands were student/entry model instruments back in the day so I am not expecting custom shop quality.

Have you owned or had any experience with a vintage guitar of such ilk? If so, what are your thoughts? What would you recommend based on your experiences?

Oh... and pics would be good

p90fool

Play some, seriously. It's usually an underwhelming experience to say the least, and even budgeting for a decent refret presupposes the frets are in the right place to start with. 
They can often be improved for sure, but make certain that the carcass is 100% rock solid or it'll just end up as wall art. 

guitars4you

p90fool said:

Play some, seriously. It's usually an underwhelming experience to say the least, and even budgeting for a decent refret presupposes the frets are in the right place to start with. 
They can often be improved for sure, but make certain that the carcass is 100% rock solid or it'll just end up as wall art. 

Tend to agree - Like the original posting, I kind of like the idea of such 'old dogs' - Like some of the original recordings played on such guitars, but in most instances, when I've played one, they are a dog to play - Most 'retro' style replicas, be they from the far east, USA, or even hand built replicas leave them for dead in my opinion

To find a good player you need a 'players grade' example whereby someone has already 'upgraded' it 

I recall an old customer of both my Grandad and Dad, who owned an original late 50's Golden Hofner - Top of the range jazz box from Germany - And fine examples today are fetching 5 digits - I've known the customer for over 40 years - He gigged 2/3 nights a week in a 4 piece dance band - quick steps, fox trots etc and a few pop songs thrown in with The carpenters Goodbye to Love giving him the chance to shine - I only heard him play a bit in the shop - Knew him to be a competent player in that format - But had never seen the guitar - About 2/3 years ago he brought it in to the shop with a jack socket wiring issue and as me if I could look at it - I was excited to do so as I'd heard so much about this guitar - All I can say is that I was surprised and astounded as to how un-playable it was - I'd struggle to play even the easiest boogie boogie riff on the E+A strings - It was a bitch to play - So how he had managed to play 1000's of gigs on it, I'll never know

guitars4you

^^^^^^^^^^^^ - sure they are cool to look at and I fancy one - But never found a playable example especially if stock - With prices rising I could not justify buying one then spending 200-400 on a re-fret, neck reset and probably more, to make it stable and playable - But do enjoy pursuing such a journey but touch before you buy - IMO it is not to be  an on-line purchase

guitars4you

Can't see the post of jumping@shadows - can you post it - I normally find such posts interesting

impmann

p90fool said:

Play some, seriously. It's usually an underwhelming experience to say the least, and even budgeting for a decent refret presupposes the frets are in the right place to start with. 
They can often be improved for sure, but make certain that the carcass is 100% rock solid or it'll just end up as wall art. 

This.

TBH, "good playing" and "cheap vintage guitar" are rarely said the same sentence - remember there was a reason folks aspired to own Gibsons etc when they had these cheaper-end guitars. 

Back in the early 2000s, I was importing *a lot* of vintage US cheapies - Harmony, Silvertone, Kay, Supro etc at a time when they were *cheap*. I was paying $175-250 for them, when the exchange rate meant that they owed me around £120-200 landed. Genuinely, some were OK - some were "good for slide" - some were trash. But all found homes... now I see similar guitars (and indeed some of the guitars that passed through my hands) for £600-2k. Genuinely they aren't worth that, imho. 

If you want a hollow body guitar, buy a retro-flavoured modern one - such as the Godin Kingpin, or similar. If the tone of the DeArmond pickup really is your thing (and tbh, its nice but not the most versatile pickup IMHO) get a modern recreation of one - as the originals are very patchy. Some are utter crap - but apparently sound "authentic" and apparently uncontrollable microphony is desirable by some... 

Genuinely... try before you buy. Variable? MUCH.

lovestrat74

Totally get the TBYB advice...

Here you go @guitars4you ;

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/257763/vintage-1965-harmony-h74-meteor-goldfoils-bigsby#latest

Penn

lovestrat74 said:

After seeing the recent FS thread from @jumping@shadows I am having some serious GAS issues with regards to "budget" vintage hollowbody guitars. 

I will never be able to afford a Fender or Gibson from the "golden" era, so if I ever did buy vintage it would probably be one of the other brands like, Harmony, Silvertone, Kay etc.

I love the gritty, lo-fi, blues tone of guys like Dan Auerbach, so thinking something with goldfoils would be a fun guitar to make some noise with.  I also like the fuller, rounded neck profiles attributed to these guitars.

I am aware that these brands were student/entry model instruments back in the day so I am not expecting custom shop quality.

Have you owned or had any experience with a vintage guitar of such ilk? If so, what are your thoughts? What would you recommend based on your experiences?

Oh... and pics would be good

I know I’ve posted it several times before but here’s my great uncles old German made guitar. Looks lovely but even having had a neck reset it’s as just as@guitars4you said about these old guitars, it’s a bitch to play. I had a hofner congress which was not easy either

Neilybob

Not sure if it’s a help or not but my local guitar shop is closing down just before Christmas and he has reduced all of his stock including this. £875 down to 

https://reverb.com/item/76463645-hagstrom-viking-1965-sunburst?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=76463645

OilCityPickups

I gigged a Hofner President Florentine like this for years in the late 70s ... it was easy enough to play ... but these ain't cheap anymore. 

lovestrat74

Neilybob said:

Not sure if it’s a help or not but my local guitar shop is closing down just before Christmas and he has reduced all of his stock including this. £875 down to 

https://reverb.com/item/76463645-hagstrom-viking-1965-sunburst?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=76463645

Yeah I saw that Neil. Have you played it?

guitars4you

lovestrat74 said:

Totally get the TBYB advice...

Here you go @guitars4you ;

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/257763/vintage-1965-harmony-h74-meteor-goldfoils-bigsby#latest

Thanks and that is cool and a far more authentic price - The other point with such guitars is to play them in a more 'simple ' manner aka JJ Cale - ie less is more - That video clips in a way shows what they are for - Forget your SRV/EVH styles on such a guitar  - As @impmann states above, they make great bottleneck guitars - And I love the tone of gold foils - Tried a replica set once on a LP but just nor right ref the tonal character 

But don't give up the search - In fact enjoy it - But again as @impmann states, check out some of the 'retro' copies - the Guild spec'd Dearmond's are well worth looking at and by and large sensible prices, albeit rising - I sold a Starfire 2/3 weeks ago that was excellent

mgaw

I had the chance to try out a 1950s Gibson 125 whilst in Scotland recently, it played well enough and had had a refret done, glad I had the opportunity because I wouldn’t buy one now, they look great etc but not for me

chickenbonejohn

I've got a nice 1950s Kay twin pickup archtop and I've gigged with it quite lot. It was in remarkable condition when I got it, which is pretty exceptional for this sort of thing although it did need a neck re-set, which I did myself. I've also had a Harmony Monterey which I fitted a P90 to, gigged with and then sold on, as I already had the Kay. If a seller says "great bottleneck guitar" it means unplayably high action  with either a bowed neck or needing a neck reset. They are great guitars for learning how to repair stuff if you are brave enough! Unfortunately, a lot of sellers tend move them on without properly attending to the neck angle, as it isn't really commercially economic if you have to pay someone to do a neck reset. The Godin Kingpin is the nearest reasonably priced thing to one of these old Chicago made jazz boxes - lightly built, moderated sized body and a satin finish means the have captured the basic flavour with modern quality and playability. It is very cool to use an old budget guitar for live stuff, but you do need to know your way round  them and get them sorted to get the most from them. I'm currently using a 1960s Airline (Harmony) parlour with a deArmond soundhole pickup and a hollow LP sized  Alden Harmony  Stratotone electric but I suspect most players used to modern guitars would find them just too far out of their comfort zone. It's not about the action, you can sort that, but the neck profile plus the whole budget build feel and unfamiliar design is something that a lot of players just can't get along with. 

guitars4you

You can play them _ But by and large they need to be 'under played' if that makes sense - You won't find them easy to play in a flashy solo style aka SRV/EVH etc - Yet you look at the likes of Freddie Green and what he played to be a chord/rhythm maestro and it does question any of our views above - Either these guys were better than we thought - Or they just happened to find a better example to play 

Like @penn 's Hohner above - They look so cool - But don't expect them to handle like a modern PRS

OilCityPickups

guitars4you said:

You can play them _ But by and large they need to be 'under played' if that makes sense - You won't find them easy to play in a flashy solo style aka SRV/EVH etc - Yet you look at the likes of Freddie Green and what he played to be a chord/rhythm maestro and it does question any of our views above - Either these guys were better than we thought - Or they just happened to find a better example to play 

Like @penn 's Hohner above - They look so cool - But don't expect them to handle like a modern PRS

I have to admit with the Hofner President... I tore out the standard tuners and fitted Schallers, and in the end opened up the top to take two DiMarzios ... yes I admit to guitar butchery ... but I sold it to a mate who still has it, and I built some new pickups more in keeping for him a few years ago ... penance done :-) 

guitars4you

OilCityPickups said:

guitars4you said:

You can play them _ But by and large they need to be 'under played' if that makes sense - You won't find them easy to play in a flashy solo style aka SRV/EVH etc - Yet you look at the likes of Freddie Green and what he played to be a chord/rhythm maestro and it does question any of our views above - Either these guys were better than we thought - Or they just happened to find a better example to play 

Like @penn 's Hohner above - They look so cool - But don't expect them to handle like a modern PRS

I have to admit with the Hofner President... I tore out the standard tuners and fitted Schallers, and in the end opened up the top to take two DiMarzios ... yes I admit to guitar butchery ... but I sold it to a mate who still has it, and I built some new pickups more in keeping for him a few years ago ... penance done :-) 

And by and large they work better with heavier strings - As they were designed with 

Neilybob

lovestrat74 said:

Neilybob said:

Not sure if it’s a help or not but my local guitar shop is closing down just before Christmas and he has reduced all of his stock including this. £875 down to 

https://reverb.com/item/76463645-hagstrom-viking-1965-sunburst?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=76463645

Yeah I saw that Neil. Have you played it?

I haven’t but it’s a 10min drive from me so might pop up there this week. 

Neilybob

Saw Aynsley Lister plays an old guitar which has been upgraded. 

https://youtu.be/hCgaAfdfiHc?si=JMXDeNjukTr_YZ7x

I have a Greco SA500 from 1972 which is a ES330/335 copy. It looks like a ES335 but is hollow. It has lovely tone and plays well. 

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50844885511_6eae74ba8b_c.jpg

MikeP

If you want not a cheap guitar but not gibson money look for a vintage guild, love my starfire ii, if it's got a truss rod then it should be able to be set up to play as well as anything modern surely?

TheMarlin

I can loan you my (Eastwood) Airline H78. It’s a modern version of an old harmony hollow body. 

Lovely thing. 

https://eastwoodguitars.co.uk/products/airline-h78