Speaker Shootout - V30 vs G12T-75

jpfamps

ICBM said:

Cirrus said:

Funnily enough though I've never had a Cornford amp I have had one of their closed back 2x12 V30 cabs. And that cab was so middy I was shocked - my ownership of it overlapped with a Zilla 2x12 also with V30s and the difference was incredible. That Cornford just threw gobs of upper mids at you with very little bass. And this was a front loaded, properly sealed back design with glue and everything. I actually checked the speaker phase and tried two Mesa brand V30s in it to see if the speakers were faulty, to no effect.

Front-loading seems to exaggerate the mids on V30s and make them harsher. They're a very 'touchy' speaker - don't like front loading, don't like small cabs, don't like being single, don't like middy amps…! Lots of things that make them sound bad, but if you get them with the right amp and cab they're fantastic.

I can totally understand why almost as many people hate them as like them. I have no idea why they've become the 'one size fits all' premium speaker, they're really not the best choice for that at all. The only thing I can really think of is that they're very loud, so they make an amp sound impressive when compared to one without a V30 in a shop.

There are several reasons why they are the "go to" speaker for many small manufacturers, including the efficiency you allude to.

There is also a perception of quality associated with V30s, which helps the marketing your amp.

For small manufacturers (eg Cornford) though the main reason is that you get best price from Celestion if you order speakers by the pallet of 60. Thus is makes sense to use the same speaker in all your amps, and if you have the intention of making a higher powered 1 x 12 combo you need one that is rated for at least 50Ws, which narrows your choice down.

I have to admit I'm not a massive fan of V30s (nor Cornford amps).

jpfamps

ICBM said:

Well after reading this thread last night I had the bright idea to swap out the V30 in the shop's Cornford Harlequin and see if I could make it sound better and maybe help sell it...

What a total pain in the arse!

First, getting the grille out is so difficult that I almost began to suspect it was glued in. First you have to remove the four screws (easy) and take the corner protectors off (easy), and then you have to try to get the grille out, without damaging either it or the cabinet. It's jammed in so tightly that at one point I seriously considered just leaving it... but there is a way: if you put oversized wood screws in the four holes so they grip the frame and don't go through into the cabinet, you can pull the grille out - it still wasn't easy, I had to lever it out by gripping the screws under their heads with pliers and levering against pieces of scrap wood on the edge of the cab, and slowly working it out by going round and round one corner at a time. Ten minutes! No I am not kidding.

Then I undid the speaker bolts, and tried to take it out... and found that it actually *was* glued to the baffle with a double-sided sticky gasket. WTF?!! There is absolutely no need for this in an open-back cab. More careful levering with flat screwdrivers under the edge trying to avoid indenting the wood... another five minutes, but again no damage. (Lever upwards only, so the indents are well under the rim of the speaker and hidden.)

I had a spare cheap Eminence to hand I wanted to try, so I put it in... and discovered that they've made the mounting circle at the upper limit for a Celestion, which is very slightly larger than an Eminence, so the bolts won't fit!!! I really wished I'd never started this now.

But the good news is that I managed to wedge the Eminence in just well enough to test the amp, and it sounds *miles* better. The horrible nasal middyness is gone and the amp now has some bottom-end - and that's not even with a good speaker. So I hope all I need to do now is find a different Celestion...

Sorry for the essay! I just needed to vent a bit about the utter bloody-mindedness of whoever thought it was a good idea to build an amp like this .

Gear that's hard to disassemble is indeed a total pain in backside.

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

I can totally understand why almost as many people hate them as like them. I have no idea why they've become the 'one size fits all' premium speaker, they're really not the best choice for that at all. The only thing I can really think of is that they're very loud, so they make an amp sound impressive when compared to one without a V30 in a shop.

Agreed.

Also I wonder if the solid pine of the cornford cab affects how the v30 sounds as well?

ICBM said:

But the good news is that I managed to wedge the Eminence in just well enough to test the amp, and it sounds *miles* better.

Tempted to put that in my sig... )

Richardj

Roadhouse cab is made of ply despite what the blurb says.  It is actually heavier than my '68 Custom Twin Reverb!

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

Also I wonder if the solid pine of the cornford cab affects how the v30 sounds as well?

It's ply, I think. Certainly the baffle is, I didn't pay any attention to the box itself.

Dave_Mc said:

Tempted to put that in my sig... )

Ah, you mean *this* Eminence sounds better than *that* Celestion . That's because the voicing of that Celestion is totally wrong for the amp, and it's in the wrong cabinet.

Find the right Celestion and it will blow the Eminence away . The only problem is to find the right Celestion without spending more than I can get for a second hand V30...

EdGrip

Interesting. I always wondered about Cornford's obsession with V30s at the time.

ab2014

To echo some of the other comments. V30 are more fussy with head choice and cabinet construction. Hate my Laney head running through a Harley Benton v30 2*12 but didn't mind it through an orange. 75's are quite a lot more hollow in the mid range. V30 sound better with darker amps and neutral guitars as they add too much of that hi mid snarl for my ears.

Dave_Mc

Richardj said:

Roadhouse cab is made of ply despite what the blurb says.  It is actually heavier than my '68 Custom Twin Reverb!

Ah ok. Are the more expensive cornford cabs pine or did I just imagine that? )

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

Also I wonder if the solid pine of the cornford cab affects how the v30 sounds as well?

(a) It's ply, I think. Certainly the baffle is, I didn't pay any attention to the box itself.

Dave_Mc said:

Tempted to put that in my sig... )

(b) Ah, you mean *this* Eminence sounds better than *that* Celestion . That's because the voicing of that Celestion is totally wrong for the amp, and it's in the wrong cabinet.

Find the right Celestion and it will blow the Eminence away . The only problem is to find the right Celestion without spending more than I can get for a second hand V30...

(a) I have a vague recollection that they used to say the baffles were ply but the cabs (at least on the more expensive, non-roadhouse ones) were solid pine. I've never opened one up, though, that's just what the specs said, so I dunno whether they were or not...

(b) Yeah ) I just thought it was funny.