Has a valve purest would I be disappointed with a Fender tone master?

jellybelly

@markj you'd be welcome to come try mine - you're not too far away (I'm in Bolton, near Middlebrook on the M61).

As @Chris78 suggests the two versions sound quite far apart to begin with but as @HandwrittenHero says you can make changes to the blackface one to bring it closer to the blonde. The two software updates for the treble cap and reverb control are must haves, and a stock one won't have done these mods!

relic245

markj said:

I know digital can’t match the warmth of valves,

 

If you've already decided that it won't be as good then I promise you it won't be. 

I have the same problem with parties. 

I tell myself that I don't want to go because it will be a shit party and guess what, when I say that it always is. 

I struggle with it, but when I force myself to not pre-judge and go along with an open mind then *sometimes* I really enjoy myself. 

Confirmation bias tells us that if you've already decided that it won't be as good then you will prove that to yourself. 

Danny1969

The Tonemaster series of amps is different really to anything else because it's basically sold on looks. People think they are getting something special because the amp looks like the real thing. 

In reality what you are getting is a bit of Fender modelling feeding a generic class D amp put into a nice cabinet. You could achieve the same thing with a basic floor modeller and a PA speaker but it wouldn't look the same. 

I think they would have been better value if they had put all the big models of Fender in the DSP and allowed users to select which one they wanted. 

stickyfiddle

I had nothing but valve amps for 15 years, and never even considered anything else. 

Since I got my TMDR I’ve barely even considered another valve amp because almost all of them are too loud, too heavy, too expensive. 

Does it sound absolutely as good at full beans as a hardwired 64 DR? Probably not. How much do I care? Absolutely zero because it definitely sounds & feels like a deluxe reverb and all the value-add stuff (weight, attenuation, interface, etc) is just amazing. 

That’s not to say the likes of Carr aren’t attractive as they definitely tempt me, but they’re hardly comparable as one is 2.5x the price of the other!

I did just buy a TM Princeton too… 

Petepassion

Slightly off topic, but related. I had rehearsal last night, I took my recently acquired Fargen BBv2 combo which sounded great with my other band, and my Vox AC50 head with my Orange 4x12 cab.
Tried the Fargen first and sounded great...until I played through the half stack which was immense! 
   The Fargen is easy to transport whereas the half stack is a right ball ache, I really struggle with the Orange 4x12 in and out the house and car, it's by far the heaviest cab I've ever owned, but I'm happy to struggle like a c#nt if it gets me the sound I want.
   As mentioned, if it was just for home playing get what you really want, weight is pretty much irrelevant if it's not being moved about.

Lewy

Danny1969 said:

In reality what you are getting is a bit of Fender modelling feeding a generic class D amp put into a nice cabinet. You could achieve the same thing with a basic floor modeller and a PA speaker but it wouldn't look the same. 

No you couldn't. You could achieve the same thing with a basic floor modeller with the cab sim turned off going into a power amp into a nice cabinet but at that point if that's the result you want the Tonemaster starts to look quite convenient, especially if you want the UI of using a conventional amp.

Lewy

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

Alongside all the "real deal" amps for sale you mean?

jellybelly

Lewy said:

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

Alongside all the "real deal" amps for sale you mean?

By this logic Two Rocks must be fucking awful.

Will be far fewer of them in total, so as a proportion of those for sale, the Two Rocks but be so abysmally unusable they'd be more use as furniture instead.

relic245

Danny1969 said:

The Tonemaster series of amps is different really to anything else because it's basically sold on looks. People think they are getting something special because the amp looks like the real thing. 

And that perception that people are getting something different is important. 

This is how it works with food.

"Studies on social drinkers, wine students and wine experts have found that adding an odourless, tasteless red dye to a white wine causes it to be described as a red wine.2Morrot G, Brochet F, Dubourdieu D. The color of odors. Brain Lang. 2001;79:309–20.,3Parr, W.V., Geoffrey White, K. and Heatherbell, D.A., 2003. The nose knows: Influence of colour on perception of wine aroma. Journal of Wine Research, 14(2-3), pp.79-101.

 And when our colour cues are completely mixed up or absent, this can throw us into confusion. For instance, limited edition white Skittles (which retained the different flavours despite each being coloured white) had consumers baffled. "


I think it's genius on Fender's part. As you say, a simple and cheap amp to build but by making it look the part a lot of people will subconsciously hear it as being better than other modelers. 

HandwrittenHero

jellybelly said:

Lewy said:

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

Alongside all the "real deal" amps for sale you mean?

By this logic Two Rocks must be fucking awful.

Will be far fewer of them in total, so as a proportion of those for sale, the Two Rocks but be so abysmally unusable they'd be more use as furniture instead.

I mean, this place isn’t the gearpage, but it’s still a guitar forum. People flip gear. People also see something, give it a whirl, some find it isn’t for them and sell it on. Or because they need to offset a different purchase. Sold more than enough stuff here that has been for that reason.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

munckee said:

I have a Princeton and have had a silver face champ and have tried tone masters. My view is they sound good but not as good and unless I needed a really light amp for gigging are not for me. 

p90fool said:

markj said:

 I’m not a gigging guitarist just a home player.

 

This is by far the biggest reason you probably shouldn't bother, their light weight is the whole point.

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but my logic works completely the opposite way to both the above quotes. If I had wanted an amp purely for live gigging I would go with the genuine valve Princeton as in truth it probably does sound marginally better 'in the rooms. Plus, the valve Princeton isn't that much heavier than the TM anyway.

However, I think the real boon for the home player is the power scaling. I would never turn my TMPR up anywhere beyond halfway on the power scaling at home. The TMDR I doubt I'd ever need more than the first 2 notches at home. 

I honestly never understood how anyone plays non-MV valve amps with more than 5w satisfactorily at home. A valve Princeton is WAY too loud for my little spare room at home.

chris78

jellybelly said:

Lewy said:

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

Alongside all the "real deal" amps for sale you mean?

By this logic Two Rocks must be fucking awful.

Will be far fewer of them in total, so as a proportion of those for sale, the Two Rocks but be so abysmally unusable they'd be more use as furniture instead.

To be honest, two rocks sound very good, but they are absolutely unusable. Yes, they’ve got a decent master, but even on the studio signature, which is the baby 35 watts, you can’t take the amp beyond 1/4 volume unless you want to permanently damage your hearing or annoy the landlord of the pub you’re gigging in

birtner

The Vox Adio has a really nice black face setting. I often think about selling my tone master and replacing it with an AC10 for when I need portability and am Adio for home as the Bluetooth is really handy. The tone masters line out is a godsend though. 

snowblind

I honestly never understood how anyone plays non-MV valve amps with more than 5w satisfactorily at home. A valve Princeton is WAY too loud for my little spare room at home.

I have a 100W HiWatt at home which does a fine job at low volumes. Much more so in fact than a tiny amp because I still get the feel of air being moved by a 4x12. The noise coming out of it still has depth and character even if the sound meter is barely hitting 70dB. To my mind (and what's left of my hearing) this is better than struggling with a tiny little box of an amp.
That rig doesn't have to move around at the moment so the sound is the only real consideration.

With specific reference to the TM and other largely digital amps I find they have a certain sterility, perhaps even more so than something like an old solid state analog amp. They don't sound terrible but there's often something indefinable "missing". Hard to put into words, especially given the subjective nature of sound perception but unless practicality is a major consideration over pure tonal qualities the tendency is to gravitate towards something ideally from the last century with warm glowing tubes in it.

1Strat2many

I bought a TM Princeton last July from Bonners to use on small to medium sized gigs and, for the intended purpose I think its great. I love the DI feature on these amps and find it really useful. For bigger gigs I still use either a 74 Silverface DR or a Carr Rambler. I tried the TM DR and was very impressed, especially with the Neo Speaker, which I loved the sound of. I am actually planning to retro fit one to the 74 DR as soon as finances have recovered from Xmas etc. I am 71 now and weight is now a big deal for me, even small differences.

stickyfiddle

snowblind said:

I honestly never understood how anyone plays non-MV valve amps with more than 5w satisfactorily at home. A valve Princeton is WAY too loud for my little spare room at home.

I have a 100W HiWatt at home which does a fine job at low volumes. Much more so in fact than a tiny amp because I still get the feel of air being moved by a 4x12. The noise coming out of it still has depth and character even if the sound meter is barely hitting 70dB. To my mind (and what's left of my hearing) this is better than struggling with a tiny little box of an amp.
That rig doesn't have to move around at the moment so the sound is the only real consideration.

With specific reference to the TM and other largely digital amps I find they have a certain sterility, perhaps even more so than something like an old solid state analog amp. They don't sound terrible but there's often something indefinable "missing". Hard to put into words, especially given the subjective nature of sound perception but unless practicality is a major consideration over pure tonal qualities the tendency is to gravitate towards something ideally from the last century with warm glowing tubes in it.

But that’s hardly comparable, because if you only want the cleanest of cleans (as I assume a 100W non-MV Hiwatt gives you at 70db) then that’s really nothing like a TMDR or TMPR, and only really like the Twin set super clean without attenuation as well. 

A big amp can sound HUGE even quietly and that’s great if you want that, but it’s not what the TM amps are for. 

UnclePsychosis

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

That's nothing, you should see how many valve amps get listed in the classifieds here. Those things must all sound terrible! 

newi123

Had a TM Twin and also ordered and sent back a TM Deluxe.

I think they are being a little misunderstood as home amps - the twin worked great as a gigging amp. That`s when the nice cab and quality speakers start to really make a difference (just like in a valve amp) when they are being pushed. The beauty of the twin was that it was easy to move and had loads of headroom, and of course it was consistent from gig to gig.

I ordered the Deluxe to be even lighter - but in reality the Twin was light enough and the Deluxe wasn`t that much smaller, whilst not having nearly as much headroom. I think I quite simply prefer 2 speakers too.

Mine got used for band gigs and also local Jam night - where I got to sit in the room and listen to the amp played with my gear both mic`d and unmic`d with both good and bad players - it sounded just as good as any other amps I brought, and players had to be told it was anything other than valve.

I sold it in the constant moving on quest, and currently I`m back to crunchy amps with a boost in front - I still miss the twin tho and would def have another one.

hywelg

Wazmeister said:

I think it's a very good amp Mark, especially at home. 

If I had to sell everything, Id end up with one of these.

For a few weeks

CaseOfAce

UnclePsychosis said:

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

That's nothing, you should see how many valve amps get listed in the classifieds here. Those things must all sound terrible! 

Depends who's using them !