Has a valve purest would I be disappointed with a Fender tone master?

Fingers657

Why do guitarists say the valve/ tube sound is warm?
I thought that was something only so called audiophiles would say not a guitarist .
I think Fender have done a brilliant job of there recent Digital versions of the classic valve / tube amp combos.
IMO there’s hardly if any difference in sound when dialled in correctly.
The best difference is the weight of the things.
I wish they would release heads?

Danny1969

Fingers657 said:

Why do guitarists say the valve/ tube sound is warm?
I thought that was something only an audiophile would say not a guitarist .
I think Fender have done a brilliant job of there recent Digital versions of the classic valve / tube amp combos.
I wish they would release heads?

Valve amps have an impedance matching transformer which has a non linear distortion in regard to frequency. This is often called warmth when describing the sound, be it a transformer coupled microphone pre amp in the studio , a valve Hi Fi amp or a guitar amp. 
People think it's the valves that make all the difference but that's really not the case. Because if you tap of the audio from the output stage and feed it into a solidstate power amp it doesn't sound or feel like a valve amp anymore. 
It's that relationship between the valves, the output transformer and the reactive load of the speaker that gives the valve amp sound. 

markj

Tell me about this bright cap mod?

HandwrittenHero

markj said:

Tell me about this bright cap mod?

It’s a common mod on deluxe reverbs. Out the box they’re fairly bright, noticeably so at low volume which also means they don’t play well with some overdrive pedals etc. Take the cap out the circuit and things are more balanced.

On a TMDR it’s just different firmware. One option simulates the bright cap clipped, the other with it in. Very easy to go back and forth if you like.

markj

HandwrittenHero said:

markj said:

Tell me about this bright cap mod?

It’s a common mod on deluxe reverbs. Out the box they’re fairly bright, noticeably so at low volume which also means they don’t play well with some overdrive pedals etc. Take the cap out the circuit and things are more balanced.

On a TMDR it’s just different firmware. One option simulates the bright cap clipped, the other with it in. Very easy to go back and forth if you like.

Is this easy to do.

fretmeister

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

There’s loads of valve amps being sold every week as well. That must mean valve amps are crap too…

That only shows that lots have been sold from retailers in the first place. Nothing more.

Wazmeister

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

I do think they sound like ‘the real deal’, if you mean a valve DR…

In fact, I think they are a very good amp regardless of price; and Ive settled on a Two Rock and Redplate.

HandwrittenHero

markj said:

HandwrittenHero said:

markj said:

Tell me about this bright cap mod?

It’s a common mod on deluxe reverbs. Out the box they’re fairly bright, noticeably so at low volume which also means they don’t play well with some overdrive pedals etc. Take the cap out the circuit and things are more balanced.

On a TMDR it’s just different firmware. One option simulates the bright cap clipped, the other with it in. Very easy to go back and forth if you like.

Is this easy to do.

Yep. You download the firmware onto a pc, laptop, MacBook or whatever, hook up the amp with usb and just drag and drop the firmware to it.
https://fendercustomersupport.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-01919

jellybelly

HandwrittenHero said:

markj said:

HandwrittenHero said:

markj said:

Tell me about this bright cap mod?

It’s a common mod on deluxe reverbs. Out the box they’re fairly bright, noticeably so at low volume which also means they don’t play well with some overdrive pedals etc. Take the cap out the circuit and things are more balanced.

On a TMDR it’s just different firmware. One option simulates the bright cap clipped, the other with it in. Very easy to go back and forth if you like.

Is this easy to do.

Yep. You download the firmware onto a pc, laptop, MacBook or whatever, hook up the amp with usb and just drag and drop the firmware to it.
https://fendercustomersupport.microsoftcrmportals.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-01919

This. Shockingly easy. Same process to tame the reverb a bit (it's OTT as stock!)

Hoping in the future we get the option of bias trem from the Princeton in the same way, or having trem and reverb active on the normal channel like the '68 amps. Unlikely, but a man can dream right?

Winny_Pooh

Wazmeister said:

CaseOfAce said:

I've yet to play one that's impressed me. They sound nothing like the real deal. Sorry... 

If they are so incredible why is someone always selling one on here on average once a week?

I do think they sound like ‘the real deal’, if you mean a valve DR…

In fact, I think they are a very good amp regardless of price; and Ive settled on a Two Rock and Redplate.

I'm surprised to be disagreeing with you but I Really didn't like the one I tried.

Littlejonny

Although I found the TM Twin disappointing, the TM series make a lot of sense to me, as someone with back problems who always seems to be unable to park near the venue (and always seems to be carrying amps in the rain…anyone else have that problem?).  I’m tempted to just buy a second hand blonde TMDR and flip it if I don’t like it.

Littlejonny

I’ve narrowed my lightweight options down to TM, BJ IV (tried and liked), Blackstar St James. 

TBH probably the most sensible option is a Pod and a Fender FRFR, but that has all the mojo of a dead donkey.

Fez

I tried the blackface TMDR last year and liked it, though I bought the Marshall Origin 20 head because I wanted a head. 
My mate and the other guitarist in my band tried the Princeton last week and didn't like it which is a shame because he is 76 and. Could do with a light weight amp.

The thing with the "does it sound like a real valve amp?" question is valve amps are subject to component tolerances and wear so can vary, so you can be chasing a rainbow, especially if you are chasing a recorded sound which may well be significantly processed.

markj

Very undecided at the moment, I know it’s best to try before buy.

jellybelly

Fez said:

I tried the blackface TMDR last year and liked it, though I bought the Marshall Origin 20 head because I wanted a head. 
My mate and the other guitarist in my band tried the Princeton last week and didn't like it which is a shame because he is 76 and. Could do with a light weight amp.

The thing with the "does it sound like a real valve amp?" question is valve amps are subject to component tolerances and wear so can vary, so you can be chasing a rainbow, especially if you are chasing a recorded sound which may well be significantly processed.

Very well put this final bit @Fez. Whose to say the TMs arent modelled after what a 'proper' 65 should sound like, Vs the modern reissues? Modelling is all about having the best, most optimal version of something after all...

HandwrittenHero

jellybelly said:

Fez said:

I tried the blackface TMDR last year and liked it, though I bought the Marshall Origin 20 head because I wanted a head. 
My mate and the other guitarist in my band tried the Princeton last week and didn't like it which is a shame because he is 76 and. Could do with a light weight amp.

The thing with the "does it sound like a real valve amp?" question is valve amps are subject to component tolerances and wear so can vary, so you can be chasing a rainbow, especially if you are chasing a recorded sound which may well be significantly processed.

Very well put this final bit @Fez. Whose to say the TMs arent modelled after what a 'proper' 65 should sound like, Vs the modern reissues? Modelling is all about having the best, most optimal version of something after all...

It’s also only one part of the signal chain when chasing a recorded sound. Speaking as someone who spent part of this week down the rabbit hole that is adjusting pickup and polepiece heights - you’re trying to nail jelly to the wall if you think you can get 100%

markj

Isn't the Firmware already been updated on the cream versions?

DoctorX

I watched a band last year who were using Tome Masters. They sounded great, I’d buy one if I had enough room for it.

markj

Just ordered from GAK, will arrive tomorrow.

markj

Only had 20 mins with it and very impressed.
I feel the speaker needs breaking in but its taking my Timmy pedal very well.
Next to my Gartone 5e3 Bluesman its just missing that bit of warmth only a valve amp can bring, but I'm very impressed.