Wolves!

randomhandclaps

But even if you take out deaths as a result of allergy to nut, the incidents of people choking on peanuts is significantly higher than incidents of people choking on wolves.

thecolourbox

mudslide73 said:

Your dingle link doesn't work -

I'll try again then =]

I think you are confusing yourself with the fan base of these Wolves...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/4/22/1335120250588/wolves-fan-001.jpg

Hootsmon

Sambostar said:

I'II tell you the truth, I'm scared of wolves, they are unpredictable, unless they have been specifically bred.  And I'm scared that I would deliberately wind them up.  Problem is most people associate them with dogs, who are predictable, but they are a completely different animal.

In a sanctuary, it's not like with wild dogs, you can't just knock the alpha male out cold with an iron bar, they will call the police on you and have you arrrested.  The whole thing seems more than a bit weird to me.  You can't be looking at a wolves with awe and wonderment and anthropomorphising them.  They will just as quickly jump you and with their teeth, they will severe an artery in seconds.  I don't care what anyone says, that is the thing that bothers me, that they are killing machines, hence why they have two keepers and hefty chains I guess.  Kind of reminds me of the SeaWorld disaster.

I have some old photos somewhere of Malcolm Douglas's croc farm.  Now with crocs you know where you stand and if you are crazy enough to get in with the large females in breeding season, you've had it, unless you have had years of experience, even then, it's risky.  There is be no anthropomorphising fantasy with crocs, yet with wolves, because we associate them with dogs, man's best friend and the fact that they are hairy, the empathy is therem and they are alluring, mainly because of our folklore.

Think I'II stick to camels.  I like camels...and sheep, I like sheep too and alpacas and llamas and cattle.  Wolves no.  Great pics, but I wouldn't turn my back to them for one minute.

Yeah, we had had wild wolves in the UK, we have also had loads of other things.  You can find Pandanus aquaticus fossils down at Boscombe on the South coast, the same plant grows in NT Australia today.  I'm not a big fan of reintroduction and I sympathize with North Americans who have had wolves imposed on them.  I kind of despair when I read that red foxes have attempted to take people's babies put of their living rooms at dusk.  I mean, what do you expect?  They are wild animals.  The clue is in the name.

I had an Indian friend who came from the rurals.  He said that when you see a tiger, you are transfixed, almost memorized by it beauty, it is almost hypnotic.  Before you have had a chance to get your bearings,  it has already pounced, suffocated and started to drag you off to eat you.  Wolves don't even have the common decency to suffocate you first.

I apologize for being a pain in the arse and hijacking the thread.  It's just that the level of anthropomorphism on here, just because something is fluffy and has forward facing eyes and is an integral part of our folklore, kind makes me wonder.  But then. I'm the sort of person who cringes when I see holiday snaps of people with wild Grisly and Black bears in the distance.

with a lot of love ,understanding and guidance they could change.......

imalone

randomhandclaps said:

But even if you take out deaths as a result of allergy to nut, the incidents of people choking on peanuts is significantly higher than incidents of people choking on wolves.

Which is odd, because naively a wolf seems like much more of a choking hazard.

VimFuego

choked on a few bears in my time, never a wolf though.

randomhandclaps

imalone said:

randomhandclaps said:

But even if you take out deaths as a result of allergy to nut, the incidents of people choking on peanuts is significantly higher than incidents of people choking on wolves.

Which is odd, because naively a wolf seems like much more of a choking hazard.

Precisely, which goes to show how covertly dangerous peanuts are.  Don't ever trust 'em or turn your back on one.

Hootsmon

^ heh heh

thecolourbox

randomhandclaps said:

  Precisely, which goes to show how covertly dangerous peanuts are.  Don't ever trust 'em or turn your back on one.

When i saw a couple the other day in town, one was assaulted

Sambostar

Digitalscream.  Serious question, no more trolling.  How did the wolves react when you arrived there? 

What was the procedure from leaving the car park to walking around with them? 

Did the keepers invite you all in as a group, or one by one?

Did any of the wolves start snarling and going ape shit or trying to run off?

When were they fed and what do they feed them?

And more on this wolf encounter with your daughter, did it try and eat her?

Thanks, I didn't mean to be a pain in the arse.

mudslide73

thecolourbox;393688" said:

mudslide73 said:

Your dingle link doesn't work -







I'll try again then =]I think you are confusing yourself with the fan base of these Wolves...http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/4/22/1335120250588/wolves-fan-001.jpg

We gave Hennessey some stick on Saturday...

digitalscream

Digitalscream.  Serious question, no more trolling.  

-

How did the wolves react when you arrived there? 

- A mixture of curiosity and indifference, from what I could tell. Curiosity and a tinge of excitement from the ambassador wolves (the ones who we'd end up walking with), indifference from the others...all except one, who sat on the top of the mound in her enclosure and howled to locate her mate (who was out on an enrichment walk at the time).

What was the procedure from leaving the car park to walking around with them? 

- On arrival they took our paperwork (instructions on how to behave around the wolves and what clothing is verboten, as well as stuff you can't have in your pockets etc). Then they took us into the reception area and gave us a safety talk. After that, they walked us out to the field...

Did the keepers invite you all in as a group, or one by one?

- ...where the wolves were waiting with their handlers. We all went in together and lined up a good 50 yards from the wolves, and had to hold our fists out (fingers, apparently, look far too much like sausages) for the wolves to get our scent. For a couple, they reached up with their noses - not for fuss (although the body language was identical to dogs looking for fuss), but rather to smell our breath to get more information about us. After that, we basically walked for a good couple of miles (slowly) with the wolves wandering through us and generally doing their thing.

Did any of the wolves start snarling and going ape shit or trying to run off?

- Nope. None of them tried to run off, although there was some excitement with the deer and pheasant incidents. No trouble. The only snarling/growling happened when the alpha female was telling the other two off or they were playing with each other.

When were they fed and what do they feed them?

- They were all fed after we'd got back, not just the ones we walked with. A mixture of chicken, beef, pork and sheep stomachs; the latter smelled the worst. Bones were included in all of it...some of the wolves preferred bones, others just meat. It changes on a weekly basis, apparently, because the wolves are far more aware than we are of which nutrients they need and what they can get them from. They were fed through the chain link fence in their own enclosures while the guides explained to us what was happening.

EDIT: I learned something quite interesting here - we all know that chicken bones are dangerous to dogs, right? Actually, it's only cooked chicken bones which present a hazard; uncooked bones are perfectly safe for all canids.

And more on this wolf encounter with your daughter, did it try and eat her?

- No, on the contrary; he was very curious about her, and was just trying to smell her breath...in truth, I'm a little jealous because the wolves were pretty much totally indifferent to me. The handler pulled him back only as a precaution, because the wolf is a lot stronger than she was and might have hurt her a little by accident. If the wolf *had* been aggressive, it wouldn't have been temporary and he wouldn't have let her stand next to him at all. That would've been obvious from body language - we'd have seen a different tail position, more of a crouch, bared teeth and growling/snarling as a warning.

Thanks, I didn't mean to be a pain in the arse.

- No worries. Questions are good

imalone

thecolourbox said:

randomhandclaps said:

  Precisely, which goes to show how covertly dangerous peanuts are.  Don't ever trust 'em or turn your back on one.

When i saw a couple the other day in town, one was assaulted

Bring back facepalms! (Or at least a groan button)

Sambostar

Woah.

digitalscream

Sambostar said:

Woah.

?

Sambostar

Did you poo yourself a little? 

I always get a bit anxious when I go down the farm.  I wait in the transit until invited in, then it's fine.  If I don't I'm up against extreme anti pikey dogs with their gums drawn back and teeth showing.  A Big German Shepard, backbone up to your hip.  Nuts he is, pack leader, two psycho sidekick crosses, about the size of labs and another five of the same, which do whatever the pack leader or the psycho dogs instigate.   Worst with the dogs is, when you work down there, after a half hour of the owner leaving, they forget who you are and what you are doing.  Then they start taking test bits, like a shark.  After that, it can go either way, depending on how close to hand the iron bar is.  I actually found talking to them in a friendly voice and mentioning the owner's name settled them down a bit, but sometimes, they just get a bloodlust.  5 have been put down over the course of the last seven years.  Oh forget, they have a couple of Rottweiler's too.  Which actually are best out of the bunch.  All the dogs were due to be put down as they were classed unhomeable and beaten by their previous owners.  They do the job though, diddies won't even get out of their trucks and just reverse around ASAP and leave. 

I would have shitted myself a little.

Sambostar

For the record are dogs definitely descended from wolves?  I know they can cross breed, but what of dogs came from Africa, like say African hunting dogs?  And where did Dingo's come from?

digitalscream

Sambostar said:

Did you poo yourself a little? 

I always get a bit anxious when I go down the farm.  I wait in the transit until invited in, then it's fine.  If I don't I'm up against extreme anti pikey dogs with their gums drawn back and teeth showing.  A Big German Shepard, backbone up to your hip.  Nuts he is, pack leader, two psycho sidekick crosses, about the size of labs and another five of the same, which do whatever the pack leader or the psycho dogs instigate.   Worst with the dogs is, when you work down there, after a half hour of the owner leaving, they forget who you are and what you are doing.  Then they start taking test bits, like a shark.  After that, it can go either way, depending on how close to hand the iron bar is.  I actually found talking to them in a friendly voice and mentioning the owner's name settled them down a bit, but sometimes, they just get a bloodlust.  5 have been put down over the course of the last seven years.

I would have shitted myself a little.

The fact that the same owner has had five dogs put down due to bad behaviour indicates a definite problem with the owner rather than any issue with the breed - shepherds are one of the breeds most receptive to training, so if they're encouraged to be aggressive then they will be. It strikes me that such an individual should have been reported by the vet putting the dogs down and banned from dog ownership.

As for pooing myself...no, because I could see that there was no aggressive intent (I'm not stupid, I did a lot of research into wolf body language and behaviour before putting my daughter in front of them), and I could see that the handlers had good control of the situation in any case.

Yes, there's an element of risk involved - we didn't go down there with any air of complacence. These are animals with all of the wild instincts they're born with; the only real difference is that they're in a comfortable, safe environment (for them) where they don't have to compete for food. That alone is a significant game changer, but they're still wolves.

It's interesting what happens to you when you're around them (unless you're a complete imbecile) - it's probably something baked into the human brain, but your senses go into overdrive and you're very aware of all of your surroundings at the same time. It's not panic, and it's not even enough to trigger an adrenaline reaction, it's just...instinctive caution, I guess you'd call it. Quite an interesting sensation in itself.

digitalscream

Sambostar said:

For the record are dogs definitely descended from wolves?  I know they can cross breed, but what of dogs came from Africa, like say African hunting dogs?  And where did Dingo's come from?

Yes - well, kinda. Wolves have been domesticated at several points in human history, but the available DNA evidence shows that the modern dog descended from at least one wolf population and diverged around 100,000 years ago.

Of course, hybrids exist in unknown quantities because all canids are capable of breeding to produce fertile hybrids. For example, black wolves - they don't exist naturally from breeding pure wolves, and can only come about through breeding with dogs.

Sambostar

Yeah the dog's all should have been  put down, but that is the point, the owner saved them from that fate.

I am severely colour blind,  quick reactions, pretty laidback but have a keen sense of eyesight, hearing and ambient senses and I have red hair, which they can't see, so being camouflaged,  I probably have an advantage with wolves then.  I do see them as direct competition though.

You reckon you could wrestle one of them wolves to the ground if you had to go head to head in a celebrity wolf fight?

That feeling you had with a wild animal by the way, it is good isn't it.  I've had that a couple of times in Oz, when, cut off, in a remote area, against a big nasty wild animal, I almost got eaten alive.  Your senses do go into overdrive and it's a quite distinct feeling to getting a kick in on the streets.

I derfinitely wouldn't want to go against a grisly bear without a decent gun, like people do, blindly trusting their guides.  Even an African safari scares the bejesus out of me.

In fact, I won't even go to Longleat.

Sambostar

Yeah, I heard that about black wolves.  Also interesting is the fact female wolves lure stray dogs in with the chance of a shag, only for the pack to surround and devour them by disembowelling them alive.  They certainly don't see them as on the level.  And the Caucasian Shepard is the only dog that stands any chance of getting out alive.