Pickup height revelation

Kuras

I’ve spent many an hour with a screwdriver trying to get the perfect pickup height on my burst. Watching the Throbak video was the best source of info in terms of guidance. I went to a guitar shop and played some Gibson 58 reissues which were stunning. They sounded much better than burst, which sounded weedy in comparison. Turns out the pickups were too low on the burst. It’s funny to think of those millimetres having such a difference. 

I’m getting a much more compressed tone now which is nice under the fingers too. It rocks. 

Has anyone else had a similar experience? 

LionAquaLooper

Yep, I had this lightbulb moment a few years ago.  Was wondering why my very expensive strat sounded way too dark and I was jealous that my friend had a cheaper strat that sounded way better and brigher.  I hated my strat for ages until one day I raised the pickups and it was like the heavens opened up.  

Had the same issue with a bridge humbucker that I found too bright on the high E string and seriously considered buying an expensive one.  I lowered the treble side and bingo - problem solved.

I honestly think a lot of people don't realise how vital pickup height is (espectially on non-ceramics), and they blame the actual pickups, the brand, the number of windings, the magnets, whether it's potted or not etc etc etc when they sound bad.  And people criticise pickups on youtube or whatever without even considering the pickup height first.  It's why I can't trust pickup reviews anymore.  It's one of those things that I have to physically try and tweak for myself.  There's no such things as a standard "optimum" height either.  It's all in the players ears.

Now I keep a screwdriver close at hand wherever my guitars are

bertie

yes - but the opposite

RandallFlagg

I am surprised at how sensitive my new R9 is to small pickup height adjustments

ryanverbena

For this very reason I’m terrified of touching them once I’ve got it right. 

Yorkie

Why fiddle with the screws when you’ve got a perfectly good excuse to waste months of research and splash out a few hundred quid on new pickups? 

OilCityPickups

Yorkie said:

Why fiddle with the screws when you’ve got a perfectly good excuse to waste months of research and splash out a few hundred quid on new pickups? 

I would much rather folks take a while and get their stock pickups dialled in properly height wise rather than, for example spending out on a set of my pickups ... then not dialling them in correctly either! 

I don't publish 'recommended pickup heights because folks tend to slavishly set that ... and ignore the fact it may be totally wrong for their setup and tastes. 

My own way of adjusting is to bring pickups literally in too close to the strings, then start to gradually back off, till I'm happy with the tonal/output balance. Other folks start the other way ... it makes no odds, but it's the very first thing to do with a new guitar after setting the action, and you won't get the best out of original or replacement pickups unless you put a bit of work into dialling them in. 

RandallFlagg

OilCityPickups said:

Yorkie said:

Why fiddle with the screws when you’ve got a perfectly good excuse to waste months of research and splash out a few hundred quid on new pickups? 

I would much rather folks take a while and get their stock pickups dialled in properly height wise rather than, for example spending out on a set of my pickups ... then not dialling them in correctly either! 

I don't publish 'recommended pickup heights because folks tend to slavishly set that ... and ignore the fact it may be totally wrong for their setup and tastes. 

My own way of adjusting is to bring pickups literally in too close to the strings, then start to gradually back off, till I'm happy with the tonal/output balance. Other folks start the other way ... it makes no odds, but it's the very first thing to do with a new guitar after setting the action, and you won't get the best out of original or replacement pickups unless you put a bit of work into dialling them in. 

This is spot on. I recently got a new Gibson LP with uncovered pickups and initially founds them a little bright and harsh sounding. After dropping them down too far them bringing them up bit by bit and balanced the outputs I found they warmed up, lost the harsh high frequencies and boomy low end on the neck pickup and sound really rather good with that "creamy" and "warm" full tone that I was expecting from PAF type humbuckers.

Once dialled in to my taste, I measured the height to the unfretted underside of the strings and they within a gnats of 4mm neck and 2mm bridge, as per the Throback recommended starting point for PAFs

PLOP

I realised I seem to like my pickups pretty low down, but most of my pickups are pretty high output so I think the distance from the strings is made up for by the output. 

On my tele I noticed that the bridge pickup was slowly working its way lower down the screws with the vibration (I assume) so I set it to where I like and put a blob of super glue on the bottom of the screws so it sticks in place. 

As for the lightbulb moment, I was the same. I couldn’t get the sound I wanted, but I couldn’t describe it. I changed strings once, and took off the humbucker ring because I wanted to clean under there after getting something dusty stuck under it. After putting it back together, the pickup height had changed, and it was so much nicer.

these days I set the pickups basically to the bottom of the screw, then adjust it higher until I like it. It’s such an easy adjustment to make that does make a massive difference. 

LionAquaLooper

Don't know about others here but I've found this subject isn't as prevalent as discussions about "which pickups to buy", or "alnico vs ceramic", that type of thing.  Most people seem to be obsessed with replacing pickups when I reckon a lot of times it might not even be necessary.  Is it because most people already know how much pickup height affects tone and therefore not worth discussing, or is it because people actually don't know? 

From my experience before my "lightbulb" moment, I'd googled and youtube'd so many things when researching which pickups to buy for my mod project and not once did I come across articles or videos about tips on pickup height.  Granted this was more than 10 years ago- so maybe that played a part.  But had I known about this back then I probably would have bought  different pickups, or not bothered upgrading them at all!  

OilCityPickups

LionAquaLooper said:

Don't know about others here but I've found this subject isn't as prevalent as discussions about "which pickups to buy", or "alnico vs ceramic", that type of thing.  Most people seem to be obsessed with replacing pickups when I reckon a lot of times it might not even be necessary.  Is it because most people already know how much pickup height affects tone and therefore not worth discussing, or is it because people actually don't know? 

From my experience before my "lightbulb" moment, I'd googled and youtube'd so many things when researching which pickups to buy for my mod project and not once did I come across articles or videos about tips on pickup height.  Granted this was more than 10 years ago- so maybe that played a part.  But had I known about this back then I probably would have bought  different pickups, or not bothered upgrading them at all!  

Believe me ... as a pickup maker I wish folks spent a bit of time setting pickup heights. A few weeks I got a local chap bringing back an Epi Les paul with a pair of my Beanos in ... 'too thin for me do you do something with more mids?' 
I made the guy a coffee and took the guitar into the workshop ... the pickups were disappearing into the pickup rings ... WAY too low ... I adjusted them for him and he was gobsmacked at the difference. Apparently some mate of his at a local blues jam told him the pickups should be that low for a proper PAF tone ... hummm 

LionAquaLooper

OilCityPickups said:  Apparently some mate of his at a local blues jam told him the pickups should be that low for a proper PAF tone ... hummm 

And therein lies the risk on the other side of the coin.  If pickup height was a more popular topic, there'd be more instances of bad or incomplete advice being spread around! 

I watched a "ceramic vs alnico" video and some comments there said alnicos are weaker than ceramics therefore should be high up close to the strings to maximise them.  But no context in their advice whatsoever.  How many pickups are in the guitar?  Too many pickups close to the strings might be too much magnetic pull, I thought.  What kind of alnico pickups are they?  They might be higher output and don't need to be so close to the strings.  So on and so forth.  So there are probably loads of people out there now who've inadvertently dampened the vibrations on their strings too much because of those little nuggets of advice.    

OilCityPickups

LionAquaLooper said:

OilCityPickups said:  Apparently some mate of his at a local blues jam told him the pickups should be that low for a proper PAF tone ... hummm 

And therein lies the risk on the other side of the coin.  If pickup height was a more popular topic, there'd be more instances of bad or incomplete advice being spread around! 

I watched a "ceramic vs alnico" video and some comments there said alnicos are weaker than ceramics therefore should be high up close to the strings to maximise them.  But no context in their advice whatsoever.  How many pickups are in the guitar?  Too many pickups close to the strings might be too much magnetic pull, I thought.  What kind of alnicos pickups are they?  They might be higher output and don't need to be so close to the strings.  So on and so forth.  So there are probably loads of people out there now who've inadvertently dampened the vibrations on their strings too much because of those little nuggets of advice.    

Ah YouTube experts ... what do you call a hundred of them at the bottom of the Atlantic?

A f**king good start!

Cirrus

Honestly with PAF and Filtertron pickups I think they sound best with the bridge as close to the strings as is practical (Filtertrons with their big pole screws start hitting the strings sooner) and the neck wherever it needs to be to give you the right volume/ tone difference you want relative to the bridge.

Roland

LionAquaLooper said:

Don't know about others here but I've found this subject isn't as prevalent as discussions about "which pickups to buy", or "alnico vs ceramic", that type of thing.  Most people seem to be obsessed with replacing pickups when I reckon a lot of times it might not even be necessary.  .. 

There’s a parallel with the “Best stage guitar” thread which seems to be about which guitar has the most switchable sounds. Whereas the requirement is 1. Reliable. 2 Three basic sounds which you can find easily. 3. Comfortable to play for at least two 45 minute sets and an encore.

I think it’s because we’ve been conditioned to buy things rather than learn to use them. You see it particularly on US forums: “What can I buy that will make me sound like xyz”. The answer is of course “nothing”. Instead learn to play like xyz with what you’ve got.

The search for quick profit has taken us away from building a relationship with a supplier. I used to use CTS pots because they were reliable, and gave a smooth transition. The latest ones I bought didn’t do either.

Kuras

I think it's not discussed as much as a pick up change because it requires skill and confidence. It's so easy to get a spend and get some new ones and hope it changes our sound for the better. I'm not saying I have that skill or confidence but it is interesting to have changed the height and heard something I prefer.

I have them quite high at the mo, the pole pieces around 2mm from the strings but the pickups are weak with what I assume is less magnetic pull (?). They are Mojo low wind PAFs with an Alnico 4 in the neck and 2 in the bridge. 

PLOP

Kuras said:

I think it's not discussed as much as a pick up change because it requires skill and confidence. It's so easy to get a spend and get some new ones and hope it changes our sound for the better. I'm not saying I have that skill or confidence but it is interesting to have changed the height and heard something I prefer.

I have them quite high at the mo, the pole pieces around 2mm from the strings but the pickups are weak with what I assume is less magnetic pull (?). They are Mojo low wind PAFs with an Alnico 4 in the neck and 2 in the bridge. 

Skill and confidence? There’s no risk to anything at all by changing heights. All you need is a screwdriver and 60 seconds. If you don’t like it, change it back 

Musical_Mystery_Tour

OilCityPickups said:

Ah YouTube experts ... what do you call a hundred of them at the bottom of the Atlantic?

A f**king good start!

Quite often true, but there are some youtubers who can be helpful and knowledgeable. On the subject of this, and in particular what raising or lowering the pickup will actually do in comparison to all other factors of a pickup which can affect things, I'd recommend giving this particular youtube video a watch as a good general guide to this sort of thing.

Kuras

Yes @PLOP. The skill is in the listening to hear the difference. And actually hearing the subtle of changes which work best. The confidence is not being swayed by forums on what is ‘right’ and doing one’s own thing. 

PLOP

I see @Kuras, I thought you meant changing the heights was a more involved process than replacing a pickup! 

People hear what they want, I discovered the difference the height makes by accident and found that closer to the strings is louder and bassier, further away is treblier and thinner. I don’t put much stock in what internet nerds think, I just like what sounds good. As a result my gear is pretty weird, I use a tele in a metal band and use very unconventional amp and cab combinations on the helix for the kind of music we play, because the majority of the time I don’t even know what the amp models or pedals are even based on! 

RelayDuzzy

I was tinkering around with my P90 pickups last week, adjusting the pole pieces to try to balance the volume across the strings, as it sounded to me like the G string was a bit stronger than the others.  So off I went with my screwdriver to lower the G string poles, and also a little of the B string, and raised the E string ones up and I think I got it sounding more even.

However, one thing I noticed was that the 2 screws holding the pickup in its place (one between the A&D and another between the G&B strings) was also magnetized. Is this a common thing with P90 pickups and does this matter much in the grand scheme of things?  Does it mean that there will be more output across those 4 strings in particular?