Pickup dissatisfaction

strtdv

I find that if I'm thinking of changing the pickups in a guitar it usually means I'm actually not happy with the fundamental tone of the guitar, and experience has taught me that I still won't be happy after spending £200 on pickups.

I thought the 57 Classics in my SG were the cause of my dislike of it (they sounded woolly and indistinct whatever I did to them), so I bought a very nice set of HB sized P90's, which were lovely pickups but I still didn't love the guitar any more than I did before. I ended up selling and losing more money than I would have if I'd just sold it with the stock pickups.

On the other hand, I already liked how my American Standard Tele sounded, and while I eventually did change the pickups it just brought out more of what was already there that I liked. I stupidly sold that guitar to free to cash/space for a twin humbucker guitar and I've actually not found the right twin HB guitar since (having tried Epiphone, Gibson and Gordon Smith).

I reckon that if I'm satisfied with how a guitar sounds then ironically it may be worth spending the money on a nice set of pickups to bring out more of what's already there, but if I don't like how the guitar sounds I still won't be happy after new pickups.

Anyone else experience similar?

Voxman

The only time I've ever had pickups replaced is where they've died.  If I don't like the guitar as is then I won't buy it or I'll sell it.  Part of the reason is my inexperience of pickups, that I can't change these myself and have to pay someone, and the cost.  For me it would be expensive, time consuming, and a real rabbit hole with no guarantee that, as you've found, I'll like the guitar significantly better to make it worthwhile. 

But in practice I've never had tonal problems with any of the pickups in my guitars. I accept each for what they are, with their own character, and by using volume and tone controls and setting my amp or mfx to suit that guitar, I've never really had a problem getting tones I like.  I'm also a great proponent of using an EQ to shape tone if I need.  

I wish I was more experienced, skilled and knowledgeable here but it is what it is, and as Clint Eastwood says 'man's gotta know his limitations'. 

Rowby1

For me it’s when the guitar sounds acoustically great (bright, open, balance or whatever) but then it doesn’t have that character plugged in.

First thing of course is try adjusting pickup heights to get more of that character to appear. If that fails then it’s time to think about a pickup change.

Funkfingers

What we will hear from a given electric guitar depends on numerous contributing factors including playing style, amplification and venue.

Any guitar, regardless of price, can be made to sound shite through poor amplification.

For the last forty five years, I have been mostly a hybrid picker. My expectations of a guitar might not be the same as yours. 

Gibson '57 Classic humbuckers feature evenly wound coils and polished Alnico 2 bar magnets. A recipe for smooth, probably best installed in a guitar with a maple top - be it solid or hollow. In the neck/Rhythm position, I prefer how they sound after a magnet swap to Alnico 4.

The SG benefits from humbuckers or P90s with a bit of rasp about them. Gibson Burstbucker or '61 models, for example. The unevenly wound coils in these humbuckers liven proceedings up considerably.

BillDL

Rowby1 said:

For me it’s when the guitar sounds acoustically great (bright, open, balance or whatever) but then it doesn’t have that character plugged in.

First thing of course is try adjusting pickup heights to get more of that character to appear. If that fails then it’s time to think about a pickup change.

I'm sure OilCityPickups reiterated this in a thread fairly recently.  It's surprising how you can make a lacklustre sounding pickup sound good as it should by setting it to an optimal height for the particular guitar and your playing style, or by adjusting polepiece heights to match the string radius or to accentuate or diminish the loudness of specific strings.

I used to be guided by the acoustic resonance of an electric guitar in determining how it was likely to sound when plugged in.  I still am to an extent, however I have been proven wrong about this quite a few times when a dead sounding guitar actually sounded very lively and "open" and vice versa.

Voxman said:

..... I accept each for what they are, with their own character, and by using volume and tone controls and setting my amp or mfx to suit that guitar

Same here, however I suppose I have used this as an excuse for having accrued quite a lot of electric guitars over the years that each have distinct differences in sound.  I definitely think that even a cheap set of pickups can work very well in a particular guitar, but that character could easily be lost by upgrading the pickups.  An expert winder will be able to anticipate what their pickups are likely to sound like in a particular make and model of guitar, but even identical production line guitars can have differences and those same pickups might sound fantastic in one of them and not so good in another.  Cue "tonewood" debate.

blueskunk

Rabbit Hole! 

Still digging myself out ! 

OilCityPickups

My own plan for pickup contentment:

1. ... as has been said, get your pickup height wrong and you may junk pickups you otherwise may have liked.
2. I've known a lot of folks who say they have three or four guitars they really don't like the sound of - er - that's probably yer amp dude!
3. Most folks play way more and experiment with tone less. With more experience comes more understanding of what is not right in your tone. It may be you pick or your string gauge ... pickups are not miracle cures. 

PS congrats for realising 57 Classics are simply not very good :-) The equivalent Tonerider or Vanson is equal or better. 

Roundwound

I’ve ended up selling every single guitar I’ve swapped pickups in so somewhat in alignment with the OP.

The 57 classics in my Gibson archtop sound pretty good. Don’t think I’ve had a better sounding archtop neck pickup but mabye that reflects the guitar more than the pickups.

OilCityPickups

Roundwound said:

I’ve ended up selling every single guitar I’ve swapped pickups in so somewhat in alignment with the OP.

The 57 classics in my Gibson archtop sound pretty good. Don’t think I’ve had a better sounding archtop neck pickup but mabye that reflects the guitar more than the pickups.

I think you had it right in the second part ... some guitars sound really good in spite of their pickups :-)

impmann

It’s funny - I replaced the stock, muddy, flubby and generally wayyyy too hot humbuckers in my 2004 Gibson SG Special with 57 Classics. It brought the guitar to life and sounds utterly incredible.

So much so that three other SGs have passed through here and have all been sold, whilst the black 04 Special remains - and is a 100% keeper, having had it 19 years.

I’ve kept the original mudbuckers purely for originality. 

Genuinely, I love the 57s and they sound big, open and harmonically rich - I don’t understand the hatred. 

daveyh

My personal formula has always been to decide on a guitar acoustically, it’s never failed me as a method. Sometimes a pickup swap or two has been necessary to get the amped tone to match but it’s always worked.

Funkfingers

impmann said:

… 57 Classics … I don’t understand the hatred. 

Gibson constructs the '57 Classic according to a notionally authentic Fifties specification. Unfortunately, the item that it purports to replicate often deviates from those "on paper" specs. 

The choices are:
1) Lengthy, anally retentive disagreements about how historically accurate the written specs of each replica might be.

2) Solder a pickup into a guitar. Play through your usual amplification. Listen carefully. Decide whether you like what you hear.


My personal taste is that the Gibson Classic '57 (and the Duncan SH-1N, for that matter) is improved by a simple magnet swap. I rarely care much for it (or the Plus) in the bridge/Treble position.

YMMV

OilCityPickups

impmann said:

It’s funny - I replaced the stock, muddy, flubby and generally wayyyy too hot humbuckers in my 2004 Gibson SG Special with 57 Classics. It brought the guitar to life and sounds utterly incredible.

So much so that three other SGs have passed through here and have all been sold, whilst the black 04 Special remains - and is a 100% keeper, having had it 19 years.

I’ve kept the original mudbuckers purely for originality. 

Genuinely, I love the 57s and they sound big, open and harmonically rich - I don’t understand the hatred. 

My experience has been somewhat different that's all :-)  I've had two Gibsons personally with 57 Classics and found them as the OP said 'woolly and indistinct' ... the combination of no coil offset with a polished A2 magnet I find totally characterless. Especially in the bridge! 
We all have our preferences, and I prefer what feels to me more harmonics and character that's all :-)

fastonebaz

I like my humbuckers to have the same or similar output so when I flick between them there is no huge volume or gain shift just a tonal tweak.  I mostly solo on the neck pup.

OilCityPickups

fastonebaz said:

I like my humbuckers to have the same or similar output so when I flick between them there is no huge volume or gain shift just a tonal tweak.  I mostly solo on the neck pup.

That means you do actually want different outputs, because the harmonic position of a neck pickup will always make it louder than a bridge pickup of the same output. This is why a common PAF style DC resistance these days is 7.6k neck and 8k bridge ... a bit more horsepower for the quieter position. 

Revolutions

Yeah for me it’s always more if the guitar feels and plays nicely. Only then will I think about pickup changes if the sound isn’t right. That’s a solid approach.

There are exceptions, pickup height is a tricky one (as someone already mentioned). For example, I never got on with the JB in the Cobain mustang, changed it for a PAF. It was still too boomy and nothing like you’d want a low output humbucker to sound. Realised it’s the fixed height that was the problem.

slacker

I bought a les paul classic and fought with the hot pickups for years. I bought a cheap sg with better pickups and didn't play the lp. Decided to trade the lp and couldn't find one better. Got lollars installed in 2p03 and have not looked back.

rlw

I'm coming to the conclusion that a guitar will sound pretty similar, rather than night and day, after a normal pickup swap. 

It might sound a bit clearer or cleaner, or dirtier if that's your thing, but the basic tone of the wood is not going to change a great deal.

Philly_Q

rlw said:

I'm coming to the conclusion that a guitar will sound pretty similar, rather than night and day, after a normal pickup swap. 

It might sound a bit clearer or cleaner, or dirtier if that's your thing, but the basic tone of the wood is not going to change a great deal.

Tone of the wood...? 

Revolutions

That reminds me… 

Voxman

Revolutions said:

That reminds me… 

LOL - but, on a serious note, it's interesting that guitar cables are always 'forgotten' yet they are an essential component of the signal chain and different cables can have a surprisingly big impact on tone.