1965 Gibson Firebird III Non Reverse safari find - more pictures

greggreg66

TL;DR - found a cool old Gibson tucked away in a customer's house, which I'm borrowing and want to buy.

Three years ago I was at a potential customer's house (I make kitchens for a living) to discuss a new job when out of the corner of my eye I spotted a particularly shaped Gibson headstock poking up from behind a desk - nestled in front of a radiator - in another room. At the time I thought it had to either be a Trini or a non reverse firebird judging from the headstock shape and naturally I HAD to find out what it was! I went back for another meeting and eventually asked to see it was, took a bad pic of it on my phone, had a chat about guitars for a bit, but that was more or less it. The husband did ask if I fancied bartering on it for a part trade on the kitchen, which naturally I said yes, but they put their renovation plans ultimately went on hold so that was it.

To save a long boring story, it took 3 years of waiting until their renovation plans started up and I got to go over there again. I spotted the guitar today, this time it was out in the living and was being used as a toy by their 5 year old granddaughter. It had the same 4 rusty strings on it and in my opinion needed some love (and rescuing)! At this point in the story I've now made their daughter's kitchen and wardrobes and am booked in to make their kitchen, so I'm not a stranger to them now! I said to them that I would love to take it away and restring it for them, maybe tinker with it then bring it back, which they loved the idea of, so amazingly it came home with me tonight. The notion of doing a trade was brought back up and is still potentially on the cards, which is tantalising.

The electrics just about work, the switches mostly do nothing or kill the sound, but some settings work. The action is fairly horrible and most frets up the dusty end all choke out. The neck shape feels lovely though. I gave it a restring and got it up to pitch, had a quick strum then quickly detuned it as it felt like it was going to snap in half (probably an exaggeration but it didn't seem like a good idea to leave it at tension) as it felt very stiff. All the pots are really scratchy as you can image. But overall it's a really cool guitar... just a shame about the botched switch. I've not popped the hood yet, but |'m going to have a peak under there for a nose around. 

In short, this guitar is lovely and I'm really hoping that I might be able to eventually buy it. I don't have the experience to tinker with this so I'm not going to attempt it. I was naively hoping that a restring and fretboard would be enough (lol), but it clearly isn't. I think I'm going to take it to a tech for a bit of TLC at my own expense - I'm treating this like a rental fee - and then hopefully I might be able to buy it from them. If I do end up getting to own it then I'd get the electrics sorted as those micro switches are horrible! 

But for now I'd thought I'd share some picks of the guitar in the shape that I found it, with the same 4 rusty strings and bridge hanging off.

Also if anyone can shed some light on possible value that'd be fantastic, although I appreciate that might be difficult to do from only a few pics online!

Oh yeah and there's no breaks, which is kind of remarkable! Especially as it's been used as a toy and hasn't had a case for 50 years!

PhilKing

The switches have been replaced.  They would have been slider switches.  Otherwise it is a very nice original guitar.  Shame about the chunk out of the headstock.  

Iamnobody

ATB have one that’s in better condition and has a case. Working back from their £6k price your example has to top out at £4K ish? Which is pretty good as the current Custom Shop ones don’t give much change from that. 

https://www.atbguitars.com/1966-gibson-firebird-v-ohsc

greggreg66

PhilKing said:

The switches have been replaced.  They would have been slider switches.  Otherwise it is a very nice original guitar.  Shame about the chunk out of the headstock.  

Yeah that's right. It's a shame about the switches and that's it's cut into the pickguard! Am yet to look under there to see what's going on inside. Don't have the right size screwdriver at home so will do that tomorrow

greggreg66

Iamnobody said:

ATB have one that’s in better condition and has a case. Working back from their £6k price your example has to top out at £4K ish? Which is pretty good as the current Custom Shop ones don’t give much change from that. 

https://www.atbguitars.com/1966-gibson-firebird-v-ohsc

I was kind of hoping it'd be in the region of £3k - £4k, so that sounds about right to me 

Lawriejones1

greggreg66 said:

Iamnobody said:

ATB have one that’s in better condition and has a case. Working back from their £6k price your example has to top out at £4K ish? Which is pretty good as the current Custom Shop ones don’t give much change from that. 

https://www.atbguitars.com/1966-gibson-firebird-v-ohsc

I was kind of hoping it'd be in the region of £3k - £4k, so that sounds about right to me 

ATB are probably working with a good markup and there’s always a deal to be done, so I reckon you could consider the price there flexible (to a degree).

Given the changes and overall condition of this, I’d say £2,000 was a fair price. Of course, if they start searching Reverb and become convinced it’s a £6k guitar you’ve got no chance.

TDubs

Nice find!

The ATB one is on commission rather than part of ATB's own stock. I think they usually operate at 15% commission so if it sells for what it's listed for then it will clear the seller around £5k.

guitars4you

Like the story above - I have to admit that I sit somewhere near the bottom of the 'I'm a Firebird Fan' league table - Despite a cool vibe about some and a few colours that look awesome - But this Firebird 111 is my fav of the bunch - But I'm a P90 fan as well - But they just feel alien to me when I hold them and try to play them 

Subject to fret wear (And I bet it would play better with a good re-fret anyway) but If you only got 3K for it in a private sale then I'd say that is a very bad day in the office - You might just about acquire 4K on a private sale 

I'm guessing there is no way to put the original style slider switches back on, but I would certainly get rid of those 'high rise flat' switches - If you can somehow replace the oblong small plate with something similar and use 3 slider switches then it might be worth looking at - I know it won't be original but it will look but then it is now 

Enjoy your time with it

Henrytwang

Quite a find! Looking at the positives, the headstock/ neck transition has never been broken and the the neck/body joint looks good so provided the truss rod works and the frets are in reasonably good condition the guitar is probably capable of being set up for a great playing action. The toggle switches will have to go, the damage under the added plate will need to be assessed but it’s not beyond believe that the scratch plate can’t be restored and the original switch arrangement reinstated. Provided the pickups all work it would be pretty inexpensive to clean or even replace any noisy pots. Overall cosmetic condition is a bit “reliced” but nothing exceptional for an old guitar that’s had a life. 

stonevibe

It would be fine if you kept the switches and just made it play.

Many of these limited edition Custom Shop models have exclusive 'mods,' so it is part of the story of the guitar. Why does it have to look like it did when it was new?

If they work, then live with it, etc. 

It's not my fave F-bird style, but it's cool that it is in one piece and has no busted headstock or neck join. 

MikeC

Looks lovely! Hopefully neck isn't too mangled after sitting by a radiator for years or a 5 year old sitting on it. Wide or narrow nut? If wide, might be worth a little more, but I think most of these were narrow. Any sign of the original case - hard to lose them, they are massive. 

Does anyone know if the ATB one is a wide or narrow nut? I'm wating for him to sell my 56 bassman amp before considering an offer on his firebird. 

stickyfiddle

That's incredible! I feel like I'd want to put a regular toggle back on it but using the extra plate that's already there, but either way it's fabulous

greggreg66

stickyfiddle said:

That's incredible! I feel like I'd want to put a regular toggle back on it but using the extra plate that's already there, but either way it's fabulous

That's precisely what I was just starting to think! I've not used the slider switches before, but I could imagine it being a bit annoying and I'm far used to a 3-way toggle. Sadly it isn't mine yet so I'll be leaving that alone... if I end up buying it then I'd strongly consider getting that done. Got to admit though that for originality I'd be torn to put the slider on there.

MikeC said:

Looks lovely! Hopefully neck isn't too mangled after sitting by a radiator for years or a 5 year old sitting on it. Wide or narrow nut? If wide, might be worth a little more, but I think most of these were narrow. Any sign of the original case - hard to lose them, they are massive. 

I'll ask about the case, but I'm pretty sure they don't have one. There's something going on with the neck I think because it chokes so massively at the upper end (not checked the truss rod so I understand that still might not mean a warped neck). Haven't measured the nut, from feel I'd say it's a narrow one... do you know what the different widths are and I'll measure it? I've got a 61 reissue SG which feels much wider so I'd hedge a bet that it's narrow on the firebird.

stonevibe said:

It would be fine if you kept the switches and just made it play.

Many of these limited edition Custom Shop models have exclusive 'mods,' so it is part of the story of the guitar. Why does it have to look like it did when it was new?

If they work, then live with it, etc. 

It's not my fave F-bird style, but it's cool that it is in one piece and has no busted headstock or neck join. 

Yeah true. I think, for me personally, a single 3-way toggle switch would be more practical than a slider.guitars4you said:

Like the story above - I have to admit that I sit somewhere near the bottom of the 'I'm a Firebird Fan' league table - Despite a cool vibe about some and a few colours that look awesome - But this Firebird 111 is my fav of the bunch - But I'm a P90 fan as well - But they just feel alien to me when I hold them and try to play them 

Subject to fret wear (And I bet it would play better with a good re-fret anyway) but If you only got 3K for it in a private sale then I'd say that is a very bad day in the office - You might just about acquire 4K on a private sale 

I'm guessing there is no way to put the original style slider switches back on, but I would certainly get rid of those 'high rise flat' switches - If you can somehow replace the oblong small plate with something similar and use 3 slider switches then it might be worth looking at - I know it won't be original but it will look but then it is now 

Enjoy your time with it

Yeah I'm not a fan of those mini switches, they feel so fragile! Given that there's no breaks etc and it is otherwise mostly original (I think the knobs are wrong?) I think I'm on the same page with that kind of value on it. 

TDubs

MikeC said:

Looks lovely! Hopefully neck isn't too mangled after sitting by a radiator for years or a 5 year old sitting on it. Wide or narrow nut? If wide, might be worth a little more, but I think most of these were narrow. Any sign of the original case - hard to lose them, they are massive. 

Does anyone know if the ATB one is a wide or narrow nut? I'm wating for him to sell my 56 bassman amp before considering an offer on his firebird. 

Would it not be a narrow nut being a '66? Wider nut being early '65 or earlier

MikeC

I think wide is 43mm (early 65 and prior), narrow is 40mm (and transitional can be 42mm, 41mm). I think some models (and Epiphone) moved to narrow nut earlier. But as ever the Gibson parts bin may have had a mix of stuff there when anything was put together.

greggreg66

I took the pickguard off this evening to have a look at what's going on underneath, and it looks like someone's had a small hack at it, thankfully not too much.

I also measured the nut with a tape measure and it looks to be 40mm wide so definitely a narrow nut.


Some wedge shapes cut out by the pickups along with some timber wedges (presumably to pack the p90s up?


The bottom of the switch cavity has been cut deep, but the walls of the cavity seem fine. I think this might have originally had an 'ashtray' shielding around the slider switch?




Pickups




The hacked pickguard


Control cavity




The truss rod seems to work. I gave it a little tighten and noticed the neck move so that's good. The nut looks rank though ha!

Kittyfrisk

Well whoever modded the cavity looks to have used a sharp chisel 

greggreg66

Kittyfrisk said:

Well whoever modded the cavity looks to have used a sharp chisel 

Yeah definitely! Could've been so much worse!

Lawriejones1

TDubs said:

Nice find!

The ATB one is on commission rather than part of ATB's own stock. I think they usually operate at 15% commission so if it sells for what it's listed for then it will clear the seller around £5k.

 Nobody pays sticker price. Let’s say that ends up at £5.5k, that’s around £4.5k to the seller for an all up original.

Given this isn’t going to be that attractive to collectors, I’d split that in half for a cash purchase. So £2,250.

Peoples perception of vintage values is so skewed by the mad prices on Reverb and in vintage shops, but the reality is that someone sold those guitars for 30-50% less than the ticket price. That means £4k for a 68 Tele etc.

WezV

It doesn't look like too much wood has been removed, just looks like a hack job with the addition of those pine blocks.  Might be worth removing them to see what its like underneath.  I imagine the original screw holes are a bit chewed up.

A new brass dish in the switch cavity will cover the damage there, although finding one will be difficult making one should be possible

WezV

also note the SG control layout drilled in the brass you do have - they used the same shape for both models.   Just an example of how much cheaper these versions are built compared to the very unique construction of the original firebirds