1965 Gibson Firebird III Non Reverse safari find - more pictures

greggreg66

WezV said:

also note the SG control layout drilled in the brass you do have - they used the same shape for both models.   Just an example of how much cheaper these versions are built compared to the very unique construction of the original firebirds

Wow great spot. I quite like that, it's kind of cool to see how they're saving on manufacturing by sharing hardware. 

WezV said:

It doesn't look like too much wood has been removed, just looks like a hack job with the addition of those pine blocks.  Might be worth removing them to see what its like underneath.  I imagine the original screw holes are a bit chewed up.

A new brass dish in the switch cavity will cover the damage there, although finding one will be difficult making one should be possible

For some reason I didn't think to remove those little blocks when I had it apart. I just assumed they were wedged in there to pack the pickups higher?

One thing I noticed last night which is really annoying is that the truss rod cover has the wrong screws (as does the pickguard) but some pillock has used screws which are slightly too long so the 2 screws by the nut ever so slightly have just pushed through to the back of the neck. They've not actually come through, but enough to push the wood grain up. So sloppy!

Iamnobody

Lawriejones1 said:

TDubs said:

Nice find!

The ATB one is on commission rather than part of ATB's own stock. I think they usually operate at 15% commission so if it sells for what it's listed for then it will clear the seller around £5k.

 Nobody pays sticker price. Let’s say that ends up at £5.5k, that’s around £4.5k to the seller for an all up original.

Given this isn’t going to be that attractive to collectors, I’d split that in half for a cash purchase. So £2,250.

Peoples perception of vintage values is so skewed by the mad prices on Reverb and in vintage shops, but the reality is that someone sold those guitars for 30-50% less than the ticket price. That means £4k for a 68 Tele etc.

Really? I think you underestimate the added ‘value’ of something simply being old and the scarce availability. You can’t just log onto google and buy something like this.

I don’t say it’s right, but - I think that the current market probably dictates it. 

I’d be more than happy to be wrong. If you can find me two of these in working condition for £2250 each I’ll give you £5k so that’s a nice finders fee for you! 

DuploLicks

Get them a hello kitty Strat for the daughter to play with and a box of ferrero rocher. It didn’t seem like it was highly thought of to begin with

Lawriejones1

Iamnobody said:

Lawriejones1 said:

TDubs said:

Nice find!

The ATB one is on commission rather than part of ATB's own stock. I think they usually operate at 15% commission so if it sells for what it's listed for then it will clear the seller around £5k.

 Nobody pays sticker price. Let’s say that ends up at £5.5k, that’s around £4.5k to the seller for an all up original.

Given this isn’t going to be that attractive to collectors, I’d split that in half for a cash purchase. So £2,250.

Peoples perception of vintage values is so skewed by the mad prices on Reverb and in vintage shops, but the reality is that someone sold those guitars for 30-50% less than the ticket price. That means £4k for a 68 Tele etc.

Really? I think you underestimate the added ‘value’ of something simply being old and the scarce availability. You can’t just log onto google and buy something like this.

I don’t say it’s right, but - I think that the current market probably dictates it. 

I’d be more than happy to be wrong. If you can find me two of these in working condition for £2250 each I’ll give you £5k so that’s a nice finders fee for you! 

You can pay whatever you wish for it, and if it makes you happy you can’t put a price on that.

You’ll quickly find its value if you come to sell it and if it’s to a dealer my estimate is in the ballpark of what you’ll get.

Of course you might get more in a private sale, but you’re going to need to spend not insignificant amount to get this working again. All with the knowledge that every change you make devalues the guitar by affecting its originality. The more changes the less desirable (and valuable) it’ll be.

Again, if you’ll keep it forever and it’s the guitar of your dreams that’s all irrelevant. But in the cold hard world of vintage guitars this is how it works.

My point wasn’t to upset or offend the OP but to gently suggest that using online ads through Reverb or reputable vintage sellers doesn’t represent a reasonable price for this guitar. 

SteveRobinson

You can't select 3 pickups using a standard Les Paul type toggle of course. I think this would originally have had a single slider selecting each pickup individually.

It's possible I suppose that it originally had two pickups, they were all routed for three.

WezV

Lawriejones1 said: 

Of course you might get more in a private sale, but you’re going to need to spend not insignificant amount to get this working again. All with the knowledge that every change you make devalues the guitar by affecting its originality. The more changes the less desirable (and valuable) it’ll be.

I don't see there being that much work here to restore previous changes back to original spec.  

 I would expect putting the proper switch and screws on this will easily add more value than the cost of the work as most buyers will prefer original spec with a few replaced parts over incorrect spec.

roberty

I would see that the neck isn't twisted or warped and that the truss rod works before going any further. It's an amazing find though. I hope you can get it all sorted

Lawriejones1

WezV said:

Lawriejones1 said: 

Of course you might get more in a private sale, but you’re going to need to spend not insignificant amount to get this working again. All with the knowledge that every change you make devalues the guitar by affecting its originality. The more changes the less desirable (and valuable) it’ll be.

I don't see there being that much work here to restore previous changes back to original spec.  

 I would expect putting the proper switch and screws on this will easily add more value than the cost of the work as most buyers will prefer original spec with a few replaced parts over incorrect spec.

They’re proper but they’re still replacements. But you’re right, any buyer will want it to look as original as possible.

Discussions of value are always difficult and probably not helpful. (But it’s important for the heart not to lead the head…)

Intrigued to see how the guitar ends up and it fully restored!

greggreg66

I got a message from the owner last night asking if a slider switch can be reinstated / put back to stock. I'm kind of surprised they know what it originally looked like really! So that might well be on the cards. I spoke with a guitar tech and hopefully it's going in towards the end of next week.

I took the tuners off last night and cleaned them out at work today and lubed them up and they work so much more nicely now. I put the new strings back on and it felt better tuning to pitch. The action is not great as there's a couple of dips along the length so trying to quickly balance out the bridge height with a truss rod adjustment it's kind of playable. Still loving the neck though, it does feel really nice to me.

Lawriejones1 said:

Iamnobody said:

Lawriejones1 said:

TDubs said:

Nice find!

The ATB one is on commission rather than part of ATB's own stock. I think they usually operate at 15% commission so if it sells for what it's listed for then it will clear the seller around £5k.

 Nobody pays sticker price. Let’s say that ends up at £5.5k, that’s around £4.5k to the seller for an all up original.

Given this isn’t going to be that attractive to collectors, I’d split that in half for a cash purchase. So £2,250.

Peoples perception of vintage values is so skewed by the mad prices on Reverb and in vintage shops, but the reality is that someone sold those guitars for 30-50% less than the ticket price. That means £4k for a 68 Tele etc.

Really? I think you underestimate the added ‘value’ of something simply being old and the scarce availability. You can’t just log onto google and buy something like this.

I don’t say it’s right, but - I think that the current market probably dictates it. 

I’d be more than happy to be wrong. If you can find me two of these in working condition for £2250 each I’ll give you £5k so that’s a nice finders fee for you! 

You can pay whatever you wish for it, and if it makes you happy you can’t put a price on that.

You’ll quickly find its value if you come to sell it and if it’s to a dealer my estimate is in the ballpark of what you’ll get.

Of course you might get more in a private sale, but you’re going to need to spend not insignificant amount to get this working again. All with the knowledge that every change you make devalues the guitar by affecting its originality. The more changes the less desirable (and valuable) it’ll be.

Again, if you’ll keep it forever and it’s the guitar of your dreams that’s all irrelevant. But in the cold hard world of vintage guitars this is how it works.

My point wasn’t to upset or offend the OP but to gently suggest that using online ads through Reverb or reputable vintage sellers doesn’t represent a reasonable price for this guitar. 

Yep, I agree. 

roberty said:

I would see that the neck isn't twisted or warped and that the truss rod works before going any further. It's an amazing find though. I hope you can get it all sorted

Yes definitely. The truss rod works, but the neck dips in a couple of places along its length so I think it's likely to have a warp of sorts. In a non scientific way I put a straight on it tonight and there's some 2 low spots / dips along the length to an (admittedly eyeballed) degree of maybe 1mm ish. I guess that the fretboard might need a sand/level before a refret to try and address that?

Lawriejones1 said:

WezV said:

Lawriejones1 said: 

Of course you might get more in a private sale, but you’re going to need to spend not insignificant amount to get this working again. All with the knowledge that every change you make devalues the guitar by affecting its originality. The more changes the less desirable (and valuable) it’ll be.

I don't see there being that much work here to restore previous changes back to original spec.  

 I would expect putting the proper switch and screws on this will easily add more value than the cost of the work as most buyers will prefer original spec with a few replaced parts over incorrect spec.

They’re proper but they’re still replacements. But you’re right, any buyer will want it to look as original as possible.

Discussions of value are always difficult and probably not helpful. (But it’s important for the heart not to lead the head…)

Intrigued to see how the guitar ends up and it fully restored!

I've a feeling that it will end up with the owners, which of course is totally fine, but if it ended up in my hands I'd absolutely have it fully restored! So I'm doubtful it'll get fully restored at the moment sadly.

JezWynd

You could simplify the wiring by having a single Tone control and a Volume for each pickup. That would allow you to ditch the switching completely and give you fine control over pickup blend.