So purchased a nice acoustic - JWJ Orchestra Cutaway

guitars4you

Borrowed this pic from google but will post an actual pic soon - Effectively my purchase is the same guitar - I spent a while yesterday at the Brum show looking/trying a few options in a few price points - Had a chat to a few trade colleagues about my situation that I wanted an acoustic that felt like my PRS to play etc etc - Found a Maton that was nice but not quite there 

But the neck profile, nut width, scale length on this JWJ is far closer to the blue print I'm use to - Tried it - went back for a 2nd and 3rd play and my bank balance was reduced on the 3rd visit 

So now a couple of questions - It is set up with 12's and a medium action and little relief - I will take the action down further but fine with no/little relief - After playing electric for nigh on 50 years, my right hand is limp and weak - I stroke the strings - Play mainly with a pick and a touch of 2nd + 3rd fingers to back up the pick at times for additional chord/melody support etc  - Occasionally comp style with thumb and 2 fingers - So I will be continuing with this format 

So I need/want to take some 'tension' away on the feel - I know it will be a bit of trial and error - But give me your thoughts

1) de-tune to Eb and either use a 1st fret capo and/or leave open on Eb - This way may well stay with 12's

2) try low tension strings - see Martin Flexible Core as an option - But never sold/used them - Others that are similar - I know it won't make any difference to the tension on the E/B unless I detune - But probably move to 11's 

3) - Who has tried and favoured silk and steel and/or indeed silk and bronze (did not know the latter existed until today)

My gut feeling is to stay with 11's - I play 10's and sometimes 10.5" on an electric - I've seen/played acoustic guitars with 10's and even some who choose to use nickel electric strings (not for tone but to keep it slinky) - I'm not against this if it feels right and the feel to me takes priority - if it doesn't feel right you don't get a good tone anyway 

It will be home use only - So no need to worry about volume - The silk n steel or silk and bronze sound like I should like them - Softer feel and warmer tone - My gut feeling is this is the way to go with 11 gauge - Think they offer 10 gauge - So who likes silk n steel or silk and bronze - what gauge do you use and any additional comments regarding feel/tension/tone

I bend little - Certainly more 1/4 to 1/2 note black Chicago blues style more than anything - Even adopt same format on an electric - that opening style bend on Still got the blues/Parisienne walkways, I never bend to the right note - I slide up to it (rightly or wrongly -m just me and my style) 

Thanks - Nice I can ask you guys questions for once as I'm sure there are either acoustic players and/or electric players who play some acoustic, who are ahead of me in this process - Thanks 

Musical_Mystery_Tour

Drop the string gauge a bit and see how you get on; a decent acoustic can still sound okay with pretty light strings (ifa little more treble-ish) but they don't swing about as much as big fat wound strings which can help with action and neck relief settings (be aware it will probably make the neck relief a bit flatter if you do that, so you may need to tweak the truss rod a little). But also make sure the nut slots are as low as they can be; stick a few feeler gauges against the nut to replicate the first fret's height, secure that with an elastic band and get those nut slots down with some needle files (if this has not already been done). Makes it easier to play and it will intonate better too because the strings won't stretch as much when fretted if the nut slots are as low as they can be. Can be worth taking the bridge off and sanding the back of it a bit to get the action down too, but go easy.

Tannin

Wow! Looks great.

I wrote three-quarters of a long and (vaguely) thoughtful reply to your earlier thread, but never finished it ('coz I'm travelling at present). Nice to see that you made a great choice even without my advice.

On strings. Yes, you can go lighter, but wherever possible it's always better to retain as much string weight as you can and instead reduce tension. Everyone will say go round core (which is good advice and fair enough) but you can equally well go for a low tension hex core string. Just a different way to get the same result. 

Some selections from those I've tried that might appeal -

In standard phosphor bronze:

* Dragão D100 Guitarra Acustica Portugal $14.50 £7.50 Tension: medium. Longevity: fair. Squeal: medium. Feel: pleasant, soft. Sound: bright, clean, good body. Nice strings. Middle of the road in all respects and none the worse for that.

* Fisoma F2120M Germany $12.80 £6.50 Tension: mild. Longevity: fair. Squeal: moderate.  Feel: light, pleasant. Sound: light, zingy but balanced.

* Galli LS Italy $12.50 £7. Tension: medium-low. Longevity: medium. Squeal: average.  Feel: soft, smooth, all class. Sound: warm, bright, rich, well balanced. Comment: I love these strings! They are as good as it gets. 

* La Bella Phosphor Bronze USA $12 £7. Tension: low. Longevity: low. Squeal: very high.  Feel: very soft and easy, more like 11s. Sound: light, bright, pleasant. Comment: very light and easy, need a gentle touch. Good sound and fun to play. 

* Newtone Masterclass round core UK $19 £11. Tension: very low. Longevity: fair. Squeal: outstanding - very low.  Feel: excellent. Sound: crisp and clear but very bright and thin. 

* Richard Cocco Bronze Italy $25 £13 Tension: medium. Longevity: very good. Squeal: low.  Feel: lovely: soft, smooth, flexible. Sound: very clean, rather soft. Comment: excellent strings with a unique soft feel. 

* Santa Cruz Parabolic Low Tension (coated) USA. $30 £17. Tension: very low, like 11s. Longevity: high. Squeal: moderate.  Feel: soft, responsive, outstanding. Sound: excellent, well-balanced. Very expensive, but good enough to justify it. 

For you I particularly suggest the R. Coccos and the Fisomas. (Both available from the excellent Lord of the Strings.)

As for silky things:

* GHS Silk and Bronze USA (nylon wrap over a round core, all wrapped in bronze) $13.40 £7.50. Tension: low. Longevity: below average. Squeal: quite good.  Feel: odd - soft, very pleasant overall; the bass strings feel rather like nylons, Sound: mellow and sweet, soft but not dull. Comment: lovely in their own way but not strings you can rock out on.

* John Pearse Silk & Bronze USA $15 £8.50. Tension: low. Longevity: not bad considering (say about half what I'd expect from a standard phosphor bronze). Squeal: quite good.  Feel: odd - soft, very pleasant. Sound: mellow but not dull. A little warmer and fuller-bodied than the GHS, slightly closer to a standard phosphor bronze sound. Comment: particularly good for melodic fingerstyle. Very nice strings indeed, very well-suited to a delicate, responsive guitar. 

* Pyramid 307 Silver plated Germany $19 £10.50. Tension: very low. Longevity: fair. Squeal: medium-high. Feel: very soft and flexible under the fingers, also grippy. Sound: sweet, gentle, very slightly muted, but still has a flavour not unlike (but much more subtle than) a silk and steel sound. Comment: Shines at fingerstyle but versatile.

The JPs are really excellent. Quite outstanding. But they don't last, of course. Strings of this nature never do. How well do they bend? I have no idea. Bending is not my thing. 

Jump onto Lord of the Strings and order one set each of R. Cocco, La Bella, Fisoma, and JP silk and bronze. Stay with 12s, or at very least 11s. All up that will cost you maybe twenty quid. Worth a punt!

drofluf

Try a set of Newtones on it. I find that compared to the same gauge D’Addarios, for example, that feel a lot easier. 

rustneversleeps

Martin Flexible core are worth a try.I’ve used them in the past they are easier on the fingers.

guitars4you

Thanks for the comments guys - @Tannin your name came up yesterday when I was chatting at the show with Roland and Lee (Digital Scream) - All my 50 odd years of guitar experience is just about in electrics - Yes I've sold them in the past but more dabbling then serious - I have many times fine tuned the set up on an electric on a hunch that X might work better than Y on that guitar and often found it to be right - But on an acoustic I am close to starting point zero certainly as to which brand suits better etc - I might get lucky but will start the journey - For now I'm going to shave a touch of the saddle and take it down and stick with 12's - then try an Eb - Both easy options as only a slight tweak on as it is now - See how that settles down - My gut feeling, based on comments above and reading on other forums (traitor) is that the silk n steel or silk and bronze might work for me - But we all know a descriptive text from a forum and/or manufacture doesn't always work out for. all of us - Those John Pearse sound like they might be my first port of call

I dare say I might have to work to make my picking right hand technique to be more 'positive' but 50 odd years of 'idol namby pamdy stroking' won't be easy to change 

sev112

Lovely I do like a good sunburst on an acoustic , they are so boring otherwise 

to add to your experiments, I would say give it a go with 13s on it and you might be surprised.  I too went down the 12s to 11s for similar reasons. Hated the tinnyness and no volume and didn’t think the tension was any less ! Tried a couple of brands.  I put some 13s on one of my acoustics and it came alive and was suprisingly easier than I thought to finger pick, maybe because even though they are ostensibly tighter I think the fingering is somehow easier with thicker strings.

Suprised me a lot,  I’m mixed between 12s and 13s at the moment 

bertie

if you have to go to 11s do.............but please dont go any lower - Id say persevere with the 12,  especially if you intend to lower the action  - lower tension strings may cause issues with that of course

Tops (and bracing) are often crafted to work with a tension that could be lost on anything lower than 11s (and maybe even 11s)

There are "low"  tension strings (Thomastik ?)   - but personally I think they're "tone stealers"  awful things

If your fretting hand can cope, then tell your picking hand to grow up and not be such a baby    - 

Nice GAS BTW  -   Im hoping to see Rich at the Bristol show.

mgaw

Apart from string guage I have been surprised recently when an extremely knowledgeable friend set up my acoustic, he gave the truss rod a wee tweak to demonstrate how relief affects the tone and the feel of my Collings.

quite a difference for sure, I would recommend a bit of relief for a softer feel

TTony

Congrats on the NGD Mark - I had a good look around the acoustic area myself today, but managed to escape without succumbing.

Felt unusual not having a G4U stand to go visit!

Re the strings ... my 2p thoughts.

Similar to you, I've really only started playing acoustic in the last couple of years, having only ever really played electrics.  It took a little time and practice (and finger pain) to adjust, but now I like that the acoustic feels and plays very differently to an electric.  I generally use 10s on an electric, 12s on my acoustics.

Give it some time on the acoustic before changing the tuning and/or strings.  Yes, you'll play it differently and have to learn some different techniques, but (for me at least) that's part of the purpose of having acoustics - to develop different playing styles to work with the different tensions and string gauges.

guitars4you

bertie said:

if you have to go to 11s do.............but please dont go any lower - Id say persevere with the 12,  especially if you intend to lower the action  - lower tension strings may cause issues with that of course

Tops (and bracing) are often crafted to work with a tension that could be lost on anything lower than 11s (and maybe even 11s)

There are "low"  tension strings (Thomastik ?)   - but personally I think they're "tone stealers"  awful things

If your fretting hand can cope, then tell your picking hand to grow up and not be such a baby    - 

Nice GAS BTW  -   Im hoping to see Rich at the Bristol show.

I doubt I'll have it with me at Bristol but I'll be there and no Rich will be there (my new mate !)

bertie

guitars4you said:

I doubt I'll have it with me at Bristol but I'll be there and no Rich will be there (my new mate !)

yeah - nice guy,  been in "a little" communication with him re the possibility of a custom build...........we shall see

guitars4you

bertie said:

guitars4you said:

I doubt I'll have it with me at Bristol but I'll be there and no Rich will be there (my new mate !)

yeah - nice guy,  been in "a little" communication with him re the possibility of a custom build...........we shall see

He had a very nice New Yorker style 00 that I really liked - Sounded excellent and I was torn between this and the Orchestral Cutaway - The Cutaway played better and that has always been my 1st port of call - But it was very nice - 13 fret - gnats whisker over 43mm nut width and a gnats whisker under 25" scale length so close to my 'comfort zone' of what I'm use to with a PRS 

PCT57

Nice guitar. There was a good review in Guitarist magazine last July of this model and a parlour and they both got 9 out of 10. 

Here’s the video link

https://youtu.be/4Dtk-n_34_o?si=9W6TA-1B4VwtYEdD

Winny_Pooh

I'd try Newtone masterclass hex core 11s and see if you can drop the action.

What pick do you use? I prefer slightly larger and thicker picks on acoustic vs electric. 

guitars4you

Winny_Pooh said:

I'd try Newtone masterclass hex core 11s and see if you can drop the action.

What pick do you use? I prefer slightly larger and thicker picks on acoustic vs electric. 

2mm stubby - have done for many many years and everything else feels alien in comparison - Tried a thumb pick once but might ask ell have boxing gloves on my right hand as it just felt so wrong

thomasross20

I use D'addario PB XT 11s on all my 25.5" OMs. 
12s feel like way too much hard work and I do genuinely believe the 11s sound BETTER. 
12s give a hint more bass. Nice burst btw! Very similar to mine (below) - I've heard good things about JWJ - happy NGD!

thomasross20

bertie

@PCT57 ;   yeah I posted that up a few months ago asking if anyone had tried them,  the 13 fret join was "intriguing"  It was the parlor that had me interested............... sounded so much better than the larger OM

thomasross20

bertie said:

@PCT57 ;   yeah I posted that up a few months ago asking if anyone had tried them,  the 13 fret join was "intriguing"  It was the parlor that had me interested............... sounded so much better than the larger OM

You tried a JWJ parlour 13 fret and sounded bigger than OM? 
Was the bridge situated further toward the lower bout like a Gibson as opposed to Martin?

guitars4you

thomasross20 said:

bertie said:

@PCT57 ;   yeah I posted that up a few months ago asking if anyone had tried them,  the 13 fret join was "intriguing"  It was the parlor that had me interested............... sounded so much better than the larger OM

You tried a JWJ parlour 13 fret and sounded bigger than OM? 
Was the bridge situated further toward the lower bout like a Gibson as opposed to Martin?

I can't recall details but think it was just under 25" scale length