If you were to build a tube amp only for bedroom use, nothing else,

Lebarque

ecc83 said:

This thread has been interesting and many ideas put forward but IMHO it is a bit of an exercise in futility? The sound that any one person wants from an amp is their personal idea and it is almost impossible to communicate. Then there is the impossibility of creating the effect of a fire breathing 100W 4x12 Marshall (insert valve amp of choice!) rig at 75dBSPL. If nothing else, such a rig generates an adrenalin rush nothing quieter can duplicate. We humans are scared witless by very loud noises (and fairground rides) but we enjoy the effect in a safe situation.

Mention was made that "it is not all the OP stage"? This is well put. The vast tonal opportunities of pre amp designs in Merlin Blencowe's book have hardly been explored in any commercial amplifier I am aware of ? This is especially so in respect of what can be done with a small signal pentode. Does not have to be the rather expensive EF86. Not looked but I bet you can get EF80s and EF183s, 'telly valves' for relative peanuts?

Dave.

There's no Blackstar recommendation in this post. You're slipping! ;0)

ecc83

Lebarque said:

ecc83 said:

This thread has been interesting and many ideas put forward but IMHO it is a bit of an exercise in futility? The sound that any one person wants from an amp is their personal idea and it is almost impossible to communicate. Then there is the impossibility of creating the effect of a fire breathing 100W 4x12 Marshall (insert valve amp of choice!) rig at 75dBSPL. If nothing else, such a rig generates an adrenalin rush nothing quieter can duplicate. We humans are scared witless by very loud noises (and fairground rides) but we enjoy the effect in a safe situation.

Mention was made that "it is not all the OP stage"? This is well put. The vast tonal opportunities of pre amp designs in Merlin Blencowe's book have hardly been explored in any commercial amplifier I am aware of ? This is especially so in respect of what can be done with a small signal pentode. Does not have to be the rather expensive EF86. Not looked but I bet you can get EF80s and EF183s, 'telly valves' for relative peanuts?

Dave.

There's no Blackstar recommendation in this post. You're slipping! ;0)

I only mentioned one amplifier and then others picked up on it. I only really do so if I think it is relevant or, more likely(!) to correct some misinformation that has been given. I will admit though that the hatred seems to have diminished considerably in the last few years.

But, many people make references to many brands in the forum. I at least make my past involvement known and I have no connection, commercial or otherwise with them now.

BTW I checked, you  CAN get those 'TV' pentodes for between £5 and £10 on The Bay.

Dave.

pt22

Seems to me the perfect bedroom tube amp
would be a tube-driven preamp and a solid state power amp. Preferably pedal formats. You’d be able to have more than one preamp type, and the power amp would all for that sound at nearly any volume level. The only thing you’d miss would be the effects of volume and speakers pushing air, but hey that’s the trade off for the bedroom. 

Throw a cab sim on the end and a headphone jack for ultimate bedroom use. 

Or just get any tube amp with a decent MV. 

ecc83

pt22 said:

Seems to me the perfect bedroom tube amp
would be a tube-driven preamp and a solid state power amp. Preferably pedal formats. You’d be able to have more than one preamp type, and the power amp would all for that sound at nearly any volume level. The only thing you’d miss would be the effects of volume and speakers pushing air, but hey that’s the trade off for the bedroom. 

Throw a cab sim on the end and a headphone jack for ultimate bedroom use. 

Or just get any tube amp with a decent MV. 

Good idea! To go even further, use a 24V SMPSU 'line lump' an amp would be plenty, and run the valves at the low voltage (two ECCXX heaters in series run on 24V) I have dabbled with these very low valve voltages and it showed promise. Pentodes especially will work well at low anode and screen voltages.

Class D amp modules are very cheap on the Net.

Dave.

Lewy

fretmeister said:

Use whatever amp you want with a Fryette PS-2.

That very clever bit of kit will get a Plexi all the way down to line level and then use a clean / fat power amp to get it back up to where you want it.

You can have a plexi, fully dimed, and have it whisper quiet then.

The Fryette, whatever cab you want, and whatever head you want will do it.

You can even dime a plexi and use it with a 1x12 with only a Greenback (25W) in it, as long as you don't crank the PS-2 itself.

If it's whisper quiet you want then the fan noise on the PS-2 may be intrusive. 

snowblind

There's this really cheap pedal called the Rowin dumbler. Stick it in front of any clean amp and it adds just that little hair of dirt which sounds surprisingly good. I use a 2x12 30W combo with one and even with the amp barely on it still sounds fine. The nice thing about that arrangement is that if you ever do get the chance to wind the amp up then all the goodness is readily on tap. Better to have and not need than need and not have, as they say.

Nerine

I regularly use my 100w Marshall 2203 in the house. 

It has a master volume, so I use it 

bazxkr

From a valve point of view I use Engl 100 with 2 x 12 and jettenuator, laney vc15 and blackstar ht1 mini stack and a dsl40 till it blew some valves lol all at sensible home volumes that still sound good to my old ears. That's a pretty big variety of gear and tbh the best tone at low volume is the engl head

munckee

A Princeton with an attenuator is the perfect home amp. 

BluesLover

munckee said:

A Princeton with an attenuator is the perfect home amp. 

So a Tonemaster Princeton then????

rlw

Or a TMDR..............

munckee

BluesLover said:

munckee said:

A Princeton with an attenuator is the perfect home amp. 

So a Tonemaster Princeton then????

Haven’t tried the Tm Princeton, tried a tm deluxe next to a valve version and the tm sounded inferior to me in the room, I use a valve 65 reissue with a behringer attenuator.  

snowblind

Nerine said:

I regularly use my 100w Marshall 2203 in the house. 

It has a master volume, so I use it 

Ditto. 100W HiWatt here. Sounds good at any volume.

marlinman

I have two amps that do the bedroom volume thing really well, but they are at two ends of the spectrum.

I have a Carr Skylark that sounds amazing down to whisper levels but not a cheap solution if its only for bedroom levels use. 

Also have  Sheldon TT3R, which I have had for many years. It has 2 ecc83’s for the preamp and 3 eec82’s for output, 12" speaker and a spring long tank reverb, its rated at 1-3 watts.  With the gain and master up it will blow the wall out even operating class A at 1 watt but with the gain up and the master down it will do edge of break up to full Neil Young at more than friendly bedroom volumes. Cleans sound majestic at low levels as well. 

So I think as has been said it’s a case of the right output rating and a good master volume, 1 watt in a valve amp can be very loud. 

jimification

snowblind said:

Nerine said:

I regularly use my 100w Marshall 2203 in the house. 

It has a master volume, so I use it 

Ditto. 100W HiWatt here. Sounds good at any volume.

That's IME too......Amps with a good MV where most of the key sound is coming from the preamp can work quite well at home. I've used a 5150 III and Friedman Little Sister at VERY low volumes and they both still sounded very good. Sure, they both sound better turned up but many of the reasons for that are in the nature of volume / air / speaker movement / fletcher Munson curve etc. and won't be cured by low wattage or any attenuator.

As above, if you can stretch to a Carr, the attenuators on them are very good at low volume too.

You probably have to try it, though. What people expect from an amp (especially at low volumes) varies so much from person to person. 

FWIW, My favourite low volume solution is a modeller through a guitar cab.

TTBZ

If I had a proper room to play guitar in I'd probably get one of these and run it through a less efficient speaker like a Greenback or Creamback. 



As it stands I can only play through headphones without annoying the family so modellers are a better solution for me at the minute! 

Gassage

I think anything less than four EL34s and 2 speakers is a compromise I won't accept.

jaymenon

ecc83 said:

Why go to all that trouble Rob when you can buy an HT-1?

The little amp puts out just about one watt and even 'our' biggest detractor ICBM say the One is quite a decent sounding amp!

However, even one watt into say a V30 will kick out 100dB SPL (at 1m) and that is a lot louder than any FSTV will go. The solution is pretty simple, one of those L pads, a 15 or 20 W one will be fine. Bloody sight easier to build than a complete guitar amp!

Get looking on Ebay.

Dave.

I would disagree, Dave, the new HT5 Mk II (to my mind) renders the HT1 redundant.

it sounds really lovely and 0.5W mode really really works. Better EQ options than the HT 1.

I use it with a Celestion G12-65 Heritage. 

And now I don’t miss my RedPlate anymore - for me, that says it all.

jaymenon

andy_k said:

I picked up a half watt valve head, on here, not too long ago.
Can't tell you who built it, but it does a pretty good impression of a JCM 800, through a 4×12, with all knobs half way up, in my first floor flat,with no complaints.
Not quite whisper quiet, but it does go lower.
I have seen similar things on ebay, and I think they are heavily influenced by Rob Robinettes stuff.

That was mine, Andy, I can put you in touch with the chap who built it if you wish…

robgilmo

Guys what does a gain pot actually do? My Deuce can go whisper quiet but if I want break up it has to be loud, it has pre and post gain knobs which I take it are volumes for pre and power amp sections? Even with post gain at lowest the pre is still ears hurting loud if cranked, Ive never cranked it to the point of break up, its just too loud.