Solid vs semi-hollow recorded sound

koneguitarist

I wanted to get a BB King type tone on an old blues song, if I hadn’t played the guitar myself, I wouldn’t know what it was, see if you can tell. Solo about 2:50 
https://soundcloud.com/southern-drawl/t-bone-shuffle?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

I wanted to get a BB King type tone on an old blues song, if I hadn’t played the guitar myself, I wouldn’t know what it was, see if you can tell.

Telecaster.

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

I wanted to get a BB King type tone on an old blues song, if I hadn’t played the guitar myself, I wouldn’t know what it was, see if you can tell.

Telecaster.

SG direct into desk.

Boromedic

Yorkie said:

Funkfingers said:

Yorkie said:

About hearing differences in the mix: have a listen to AC/DC - High Voltage (MY played a Les Paul) from the very first album, and then listen to anything else from them and from that era (Gretsch). The differences are obvious.  

Were those recordings made using the same amp(s), through the same microphones, in the same studio? Any of those could explain the difference.

In theory everything else was the same. All tracks were cut on different days. And all of them except High Voltage sound very similar. 

It is not 100% clear what actual guitar he used. Some interviews mention a Les Paul, some others mention a L-5. But it wasn’t a Gretsch. 

Probably just the pickup, the one in the Gretsch was reportedly very weak before it was rewound in the UK I think?? I'll find the article, if the Gretsch one was underpowered then that would explain it. 

I have a Les and a 335, very similar pickups, as soon as you apply AC/DC levels of gain, you wouldn't be able to pick either out of a mix I'd say. 

StuartMac290

Boromedic said:

Yorkie said:

Funkfingers said:

Yorkie said:

About hearing differences in the mix: have a listen to AC/DC - High Voltage (MY played a Les Paul) from the very first album, and then listen to anything else from them and from that era (Gretsch). The differences are obvious.  

Were those recordings made using the same amp(s), through the same microphones, in the same studio? Any of those could explain the difference.

In theory everything else was the same. All tracks were cut on different days. And all of them except High Voltage sound very similar. 

It is not 100% clear what actual guitar he used. Some interviews mention a Les Paul, some others mention a L-5. But it wasn’t a Gretsch. 

Probably just the pickup, the one in the Gretsch was reportedly very weak before it was rewound in the UK I think?? I'll find the article, if the Gretsch one was underpowered then that would explain it. 

I have a Les and a 335, very similar pickups, as soon as you apply AC/DC levels of gain, you wouldn't be able to pick either out of a mix I'd say.


There's not much gain in AC/DCs guitar sounds, particularly Malcolm's. He had his amps at 2 - "or 3 on a particularly loud night!"

Boromedic

^^ Yeah, I know that it's mostly volume, but a weaker pickup vs a PAF or T Type would be obvious regardless of the guitar it was in thats all. Not much gain in my AC/DC tone either and you couldn't pick the 335 out from a Les I'm pretty sure.

Edit: the vintage Filtertron I've read about are 4k, which is around half a PAF/T Type. Hence the majority of the discrepancy I would say, I'm going to listen to the tracks though, always interesting. 

If I get time I might record some tracks, my phone is a bit shit though......

johnhe

I’ve grown to think that my ES339 is one of the best sounding Les Pauls I’ve ever played. I enjoy that it can sound quite Les Paul-ish. But on the other hand, it is a totally different playing experience to a LP. And like with my 335, I can feel the air puffing out of the f-holes when I play. And there are plenty of times when my 335 could also sound very close to a LP.

i actually think that bringing out the sound of the individual instrument is a skill, and involves a lot of work at times. For example, if I use a lot of gain or compression, I hope it’s clear to me and most folks, that the sound of the actual instrument will be mostly masked. So if anyone wants to hear the timbre or their instrument, then the choice of gear and settings will be very important.

Cirrus

Boromedic said:

Edit: the vintage Filtertron I've read about are 4k, which is around half a PAF/T Type. Hence the majority of the discrepancy I would say, I'm going to listen to the tracks though, always interesting. 

BIg, powerful magnet and a tight wind though, I've got T-tops in one guitar and have had a few different ~4k filtertrons in another and in practice the filters are subjectively maybe 80% the output of the T-tops

ICBM

The DC resistance of a pickup is not a measure of output*, nor by itself even a reliable indicator. Magnet strength is at least as important.

Filtertrons have much larger magnets than PAF types, so roughly similar output.


(*This needs to be said in a Jim Morrison You Cannot Petition The Lord With Prayer voice.)

Boromedic

Still think that's the difference that's heard, not the guitar they're in, plus all the other variables. 

Malcolm obviously thought they weren't all that high an output because he asked for more winds on the rewind  

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

The DC resistance of a pickup is not a measure of output, nor by itself even a reliable indicator. Magnet strength is at least as important.

Filtertrons have much larger magnets than PAF types, so roughly similar output.

Actually twice the thickness so twice the magnet mass of alnico 5. 

Boromedic

Limited internet research suggests a Filtertron has less inductance than a PAF style. So that would affect tone surely?

ICBM

Boromedic said:

Limited internet research suggests a Filtertron has less inductance than a PAF style. So that would affect tone surely?

Yes, it will make it brighter.... which they are. Just not much (if any) lower output.

Yorkie

Boromedic said:
Probably just the pickup, the one in the Gretsch was reportedly very weak before it was rewound in the UK I think?? I'll find the article, if the Gretsch one was underpowered then that would explain it. 

I’m sorry but that doesn’t add up. AC/DC didn’t come to the UK until their third album. High Voltage is one the very first songs they recorded. Malcolm Young was 20 at the time. He is on record saying that he used whatever guitar was in the studio for that song. The song sounds very different to the rest of the album. 

To me, the first big change in MY’s base sound happened with Let There Be Rock.

Boromedic

Methinks you misunderstood me, I meant he used the Gretsch as it originally was. The rewind happened later. The difference you can hear is likely the pickup difference, not the semi hollow nature of the Gretsch. If it was an L5 that's also semi hollow isn't it?

Also that album on international release was a mix of two Oz released albums so there will be differences I guess just from that.

Yorkie

Boromedic said:

Methinks you misunderstood me, I meant he used the Gretsch as it originally was. The rewind happened later. The difference you can hear is likely the pickup difference, not the semi hollow nature of the Gretsch. If it was an L5 that's also semi hollow isn't it?

Also that album on international release was a mix of two Oz released albums so there will be differences I guess just from that.

I think the bit that confused me was the ‘weaker’ character of the Gretsch pickup. To me, it sounds way stronger than whatever he played on the High Voltage track.