50s wiring or modern?

Lebarque

In a ES335-style guitar

What are the pros and cons?

elstoof

Works a little better with paf type lower outputs imo, keeps the tone a bit brighter when working the volume

guitars4you

The biggest con is time taken to take out the loom and put it back in - The wiring mod itself is a quick job - Put removal and fitting is long winded - On a LP then I would generally favour 50's - But on a. 335 I'll leave it as it is because I just can't be bothered with removing the loom - Unless you have plenty of patience and time

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2020/03/01/50s-wiring-vs-modern-wiring/ - this might explain some info for you

mo6020

I have 50s wiring (and PAFs) in my 335. I like it.

ICBM

I prefer modern. I don't like the heavy interaction of the volume control with the tone setting - although 50s reduces the treble loss when the volume is turned down if the tone is full up, when the tone is already turned down then it's worse.

50s also means that both tone controls affect the output equally in the middle position regardless of the volume control settings, whereas modern limits each one to affecting its own pickup when the volumes are down.

Yorkie

Am I the only one who finds the Gibson middle position awkward to control? And are there any real alternatives?

ICBM

Yorkie said:

Am I the only one who finds the Gibson middle position awkward to control? And are there any real alternatives?

Yes, the best system... PRS - one switch, one volume, one tone.

Boromedic

50s all day long, it allows you to actually use your neck pickup without having to adjust the amp settings.

Yorkie

Easy to implement... what do I do with the other two knobs though? 

ICBM

Yorkie said:

Easy to implement... what do I do with the other two knobs though? 

Progressive coil split for each pickup?

Yorkie

ICBM said:

Yorkie said:

Easy to implement... what do I do with the other two knobs though? 

Progressive coil split for each pickup?

Interesting. Got any schematics?

soma1975

50s all day every day for me. 

ICBM

Yorkie said:

Got any schematics?

I think Seymour Duncan has them - but it’s very simple, if you’re converting a Gibson-style tone control with the cap between the volume and tone pots, just remove the cap and connect the coil split wires to the same terminal.

If it was me I would make the coil splits the existing bridge pickup pots, and the master volume and tone the neck pickup pots. To convert a volume control, just connect the coil split to the middle terminal.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

I prefer modern. I don't like the heavy interaction of the volume control with the tone setting - although 50s reduces the treble loss when the volume is turned down if the tone is full up, when the tone is already turned down then it's worse.

50s also means that both tone controls affect the output equally in the middle position regardless of the volume control settings, whereas modern limits each one to affecting its own pickup when the volumes are down.

There used to be lots of discussion about '50s versus modern wiring on the Bare Knuckle forum, but I never actually tried the '50s wiring.  Reading what you've written there, I think I'm probably better off with modern.

ICBM

To be fair, I quite like 50s wiring on a Les Paul Junior - you need as much tonal variation as possible with only one pickup - but I find it a nuisance on the two-pickup models.

Philly_Q

Yeah, I can see the logic on a Junior.  With two pickups, it sounds like too much interactivity.  I like simple.

Lebarque

Boromedic said:

50s all day long, it allows you to actually use your neck pickup without having to adjust the amp settings.

How so?

BillDL

I've had 50s wiring in a couple of my semi-acoustic 335-a-likes but I went back to modern wiring.  As mentioned by ICBM, the interaction between volume and tone makes it something of a nuisance getting the right sounds instinctively, but apart from that the guitars I converted to 50s wiring were actually pretty bright ones anyway, so maintaining that treble wasn't nearly as important a consideration as it is on some other guitars that aren't as bright to start with.

p90fool

I've use both extensively and although I enjoy 50s wiring for self indulgent noodling at home the nuances are lost for me in a gigging situation and I don't find it instinctive enough to control. 

I use modern wiring with a small (180pF) treble pass cap instead, although modern on neck and 50s on bridge can be quite a nice compromise if you don't mind the middle position being a little unpredictable. 

I occasionally wire my Les Paul as master volume and tone only, but find their placement too awkward to do that on my SG. 

This is totally one of those personal preference things, though experimenting on a 335 is a lot less fun to be fair. That said, you don't have to follow the full 50s vs modern schematics, you only have to move one wire on each volume pot to get the same effect. 

RandallFlagg

I think I am happiest with modern wiring as I tend to play with volumes on 10 most of the time but my current LP has 50s wiring and I have hummed and hawed as to whether to change it but seem to be adjusting OK.

I do recall really noticing the flubby sound when turning the volume down on a PRS McCarty 594 and found it a bit disappointing and wished it had 50s wiring but not sure I like the excessive brightness that 50s wiring can give with PAF style pickups but this is easily compensated for with amp tone controls, presence control and knocking the volume just to 9 1/2 to take the edge off if needed. There's certainly a whole range of sounds to be had with 50s wiring.

Also, I'm sure I can hear a difference between modern and 50s wiring when the volumes and tones are fully open at 10 as well. I gather there shouldn't be a difference the the controls are at 10 though so it may be confirmation bias.

ICBM

RandallFlagg said:

Also, I'm sure I can hear a difference between modern and 50s wiring when the volumes and tones are fully open at 10 as well. I gather there shouldn't be a difference the the controls are at 10 though so it may be confirmation bias.

Yes, it is. When the volume pot is up full it doesn’t make any difference - unless the pot is faulty and there’s still some resistance between the two terminals.