This is big : the pope accepts big bang

imalone

Schnozzalee said:

The Catholic Big Bang! Ok...that's cool it's cool...but when's he gonna tell the Irish they can start wearing condoms?

This is actually important. Well, not so much for Ireland, but for Africa, and would mark more progress than acknowledging astrophysics.

dafuzz said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

It will expand until it can expand no more, then "snap back", compressing our universe into an infinitely small state, which then rebounds as another big bang occurs. 

I've always believed this to be likely. I also assume that when the universe contracts, time will run backwards. We wouldn't be able to tell the difference due to the way our brains process information, so might well be moving backwards now. This might have happened an infinite number of times already, with events always playing out the same way, and us just trains running back and forth on our tracks, and might continue to happen for infinity.

Boundary conditions, they make odd things happen! But it seems likely our perception of time is bound to increasing entropy (being based on physical processes), so we always see things going forwards. The inflating/deflating cycle universe model might be a bit dated now though.

ICBM

There was an Adam and an Eve - or at least one of them. All species have a single common ancestor where the mutation which separates that species from its ancestor occurs.

dafuzz

 

ICBM said:

There was an Adam and an Eve - or at least one of them. All species have a single common ancestor where the mutation which separates that species from its ancestor occurs.

I've always disliked the idea of Adam and Eve cos it builds in an acceptance of incest - now you're telling me evolution builds in bestiality?!

Sex is icky

ICBM

dafuzz said:

I've always disliked the idea of Adam and Eve cos it builds in an acceptance of incest - now you're telling me evolution builds in bestiality?!

Yes, if you consider the proto-humans who were not quite Homo Sapiens as 'beasts'.

thecolourbox

imalone said:

Treatment of Galileo aside, the RC church has typically been willing to accept scientific theories on the cosmos and don't go much in for literal interpretations of large chunks of the bible. Literal creationism is more a feature of some protestant sects.

Yes indeed that was rather my point. I find a lot of the loudest opposition to the bible or religions is based on people taking everything literally, which is clearly always going to cause problems in comprehending the idea. Which leads me also to:

"Big Bang means no Adam and Eve"

No it doesn't if you take an open interpretative approach - the creation story could be read as a fairly early attempt at explaining the big bang metaphorically, just as Adam and Eve and the snake are metaphors for the beginning of humanity. Have to stress this is "in my opinion" of course. For example if you take the story literally, the snake was cursed to not have legs or whatever for the rest of time, so what the heck was it before then? A snake with legs? The snake I would have thought just represents the sin he brought about in the story.

Or maybe not, who knows...they did come up with explanations long before the rest of us did eh

NB I'm not religious by the way, but I do like stories with good morals to them. I do play organ in a church (in fact it is Catholic), which explains why I need stories with morals in them so that I might find some somewhere

ICBM

thecolourbox said:

For example if you take the story literally, the snake was cursed to not have legs or whatever for the rest of time, so what the heck was it before then? A snake with legs?

Yes. The ancestors of snakes had legs, and some still have vestiges of them.

But they got that way because it was an evolutionary advantage - probably to be able to follow small prey down burrows without getting stuck. So not really a curse...

fretmeister

thecolourbox said:

Or maybe not, who knows...they did come up with explanations long before the rest of us did eh

That explanation usually being "God did it" or "Demons"

digitalscream

I just braved the inanity of the comments on that article, and found this gem from "charlesfrith":

"The Pope is about three pints and a kebab away from declaring himself an atheist"

OK, so it's not that funny, but in the context of the brain-deadening idiocy of the rest of the comments it did make me chortle

ICBM

Isn't there some prophecy about this Pope being the last, or something?

Ah... yes:

http://www.thelastpope.com

Better watch out if he starts being too friendly with Putin, then!

frankus

Call me a cynic but I think it'll go like this:

"okay ah belief there's a big bang... now it your turn - you belief none of our priests abuse children ... then you owe me nothing"

holnrew

I'd have thought he'd be a bigger fan of Monk as far as TV shows go.

thecolourbox

ICBM said

Yes. The ancestors of snakes had legs, and some still have vestiges of them.

But they got that way because it was an evolutionary advantage - probably to be able to follow small prey down burrows without getting stuck. So not really a curse...

Indeed but I'm still pretty sure it wasn't a story about how they evolved physically, it's just symbolism. It's like how we still do today to put stuff in simpler terms when we can't explain something to somebody

 

fretmeister said:

 

That explanation usually being "God did it" or "Demons"

In a way, but usually a little more elaborate than that. I usually think when it's effectively saying that, they mean that the God they're on about is more like the force that started it all off, whatever that force maybe.

It's difficult to explain what I'm on about (maybe I need to create a narrative to explain?)

I think what people actually disagree with more than the scripture is the doctrine and pagentry of it all, but end up taking it out on what is easiest to mock, ie stories written down to explain stuff more simplistically. I personally feel there is much more grounds to rip religion to shreds on it's actual practical application of this stuff, I'd be up for that. I really hate that side of it all

dafuzz

ICBM said:

dafuzz said:

I've always disliked the idea of Adam and Eve cos it builds in an acceptance of incest - now you're telling me evolution builds in bestiality?!

Yes, if you consider the proto-humans who were not quite Homo Sapiens as 'beasts'.

Oh yeah absolutely. I've been on the pull in Hastings.

frankus

thecolourbox said:

ICBM said

Yes. The ancestors of snakes had legs, and some still have vestiges of them.

But they got that way because it was an evolutionary advantage - probably to be able to follow small prey down burrows without getting stuck. So not really a curse...

Indeed but I'm still pretty sure it wasn't a story about how they evolved physically, it's just symbolism. It's like how we still do today to put stuff in simpler terms when we can't explain something to somebody

My issue with that is that it's revisionist and not really proveable.

The Lords Prayer stopped being "In Earth as it is in Heaven" shortly after the first moonwalk. Did anyone miss that subtle shift? Well it's not the first, so be careful what you ascribe to the wisdom of the ancients.

There's stuff like Aesops fables which are clearly symbolism and unmistakeable, the Bible doesn't say "now this is symbolism" and in the past people have been put to death for suggesting it might be.. it's easy to blame the custodians of the book, but really there's no evidence the authors wouldn't have done the same.

When you consider the evolutionary changes required in the brain to understand simple act of physical pointing at a thing, the notion that the Bible had the capacity to be all the things people interpret it to be now is a bit Eric Von Daniken...

imalone

frankus said:

thecolourbox said:

ICBM said

Yes. The ancestors of snakes had legs, and some still have vestiges of them.

But they got that way because it was an evolutionary advantage - probably to be able to follow small prey down burrows without getting stuck. So not really a curse...

Indeed but I'm still pretty sure it wasn't a story about how they evolved physically, it's just symbolism. It's like how we still do today to put stuff in simpler terms when we can't explain something to somebody

My issue with that is that it's revisionist and not really proveable.

The Lords Prayer stopped being "In Earth as it is in Heaven" shortly after the first moonwalk. Did anyone miss that subtle shift? Well it's not the first, so be careful what you ascribe to the wisdom of the ancients.

So subtle the Church of England missed it...
https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/daily2/lordsprayercreed.aspx

johnnyurq

Early one morning, the Pope was having a nice shower, when he felt a certain tingle down there. Figuring that a little sin never did anyone any harm, he proceeds to have a quick wank. Just as he climaxes though, he here's a strange "click" noise. Quickly, he grabs a towel and exits the shower, and sees a paparazzo lens sticking through the bathroom window.

"You there!" He shouts. "You must give me that camera!"

"Are you kidding?" says the paparazzo. "I just got a photo of the Pope wanking! I'm rich"

"But my child," says the pope, "You could bring down the Church if people knew! Think of the chaos, the heartache!"

"Sorry pal, this pic is worth millions to me."

The pope sighs. "Very well, if I give you ten million euros will you give me the camera?"

The paparazzo thinks on this for a moment and agrees. So the Pope writes him a cheque, takes the camera and sends him on his way. Later, as he's sitting on his bed grumbling and trying to get the film out, a maid walks in.

"Oh, your Holiness," says the maid, "that's a very nice camera. How much did it cost you?"

"Ten million euros." grunts the Pope.

"Ten million euros? TEN MILLION EUROS?" They must have seen you coming!"

chillidoggy

I thought the Pope's position was sat in the back of a van with big windows.

UnclePsychosis

The Catholic Church has accepted the big bang for quite some time. I'm not really sure why this is news (well, I know why it's news, but it's not as big as people are making out)

The Pope in the 1950s (I forget his name) who said that catholicism and the big bang were not incompatible.

The guy who first suggested the big bang as a plausible idea was a Catholic priest for goodness sake!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

There are many, many sticks with which to beat the Catholic Church but bizarrely, given some of their other anti-science stances, the big bang theory and to a lesser extent evolution aren't really among them. It's their cousins across Christianity in other denominations that go for the crazy creation stories.

not_the_dj

UnclePsychosis said:

The Catholic Church has accepted the big bang for quite some time. I'm not really sure why this is news (well, I know why it's news, but it's not as big as people are making out)

I'd read it started really small, then got bigger.....much bigger ;-)

frankus

imalone said:

frankus said:

thecolourbox said:

ICBM said

Yes. The ancestors of snakes had legs, and some still have vestiges of them.

But they got that way because it was an evolutionary advantage - probably to be able to follow small prey down burrows without getting stuck. So not really a curse...

Indeed but I'm still pretty sure it wasn't a story about how they evolved physically, it's just symbolism. It's like how we still do today to put stuff in simpler terms when we can't explain something to somebody

My issue with that is that it's revisionist and not really proveable.

The Lords Prayer stopped being "In Earth as it is in Heaven" shortly after the first moonwalk. Did anyone miss that subtle shift? Well it's not the first, so be careful what you ascribe to the wisdom of the ancients.

So subtle the Church of England missed it...
https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/daily2/lordsprayercreed.aspx

That comment was so subtle it was obfuscated - what do you mean?

BTW I can see "on earth as it is in heaven" in the second verse.