Mountain bike people, a question or two?

robgilmo

I went to the forest today with the wee man, he has a Cannondale Trail 24, his steering became knotchy and squeeky. I pul;led it apart and found the lower fork bearing had fallen apart. This happened quite suddenly.

So what might have caused this?

And would it be prudent to put a better head set on the bike rather than buy a new like for like set from Cannondale?

m_c

It's most likely loosened off for some reason, or has been loose and been damaged in the past and reached the point things have finally moved enough for the balls to escape.

Going by the photo, it looks like some kind of integrated headset that uses loose balls rather than sealed bearings.

It should be a pretty generic headset bearing cage, however I'm not entirely sure which physical shops would keep them now. If you have a local bike shop that does lower end bikes, they're the most likely to keep them.

Simply bearings list a couple Weldtite options, but you'll need to measure the balls - Loose Balls and Cages at Simply Bearings - Bike Bearings and Cages - High Qualit 

Alternatively you could order some loose balls, and stick them in with grease. Put enough balls in that the race is full, then remove one. The reasons they use a cage is for convenience for assembly, and you need less balls as the cage stops them all rolling to the one side.

robgilmo

m_c said:

It's most likely loosened off for some reason, or has been loose and been damaged in the past and reached the point things have finally moved enough for the balls to escape.

Going by the photo, it looks like some kind of integrated headset that uses loose balls rather than sealed bearings.

It should be a pretty generic headset bearing cage, however I'm not entirely sure which physical shops would keep them now. If you have a local bike shop that does lower end bikes, they're the most likely to keep them.

Simply bearings list a couple Weldtite options, but you'll need to measure the balls - Loose Balls and Cages at Simply Bearings - Bike Bearings and Cages - High Qualit 

Alternatively you could order some loose balls, and stick them in with grease. Put enough balls in that the race is full, then remove one. The reasons they use a cage is for convenience for assembly, and you need less balls as the cage stops them all rolling to the one side.

I found the headset from Cannondale, its semi integrated, I was just wondering could I replace it with something more reliable, perhaps with sealed bearings?

Cannondale Semi Integrated Straight 1 1/8in Headset, 28.6/44/30, (2020+ Trail with Straight 1 1/8 headtube), K35020 (cannondalespares.com)

Kurtis

Just get a new one. I've replaced mine, and pretty much every thing else.
They do go eventually. Looks like quite a new bike though? 

m_c

There will likely be some headset with sealed bearings that would fit, however finding one can be problematic, as integrated led to an explosion of options.

If anybody will do one, it'll be FSA - FSA – EasyHeadset (fsaeasyheadset.com)

However given it's a kids bike, provided the bearing races are fine, I'd just replace the bearings and pack them with a decent grease, as headsets can get relatively expensive.

robgilmo

The races will be shagged if the bearing cage came apart, I have it all stripped out, crown race, cups etc, I will take some measurments and see if I can get a sealed bearing option.

One thing puzzles me though, how do you tension the bearings on a none threaded fork? The old type had a big nut to tension the bearings and keep them located, does this system rely on the spacers and stem to keep the bearings all located and tight?

drofluf

robgilmo said:

The races will be shagged if the bearing cage came apart, I have it all stripped out, crown race, cups etc, I will take some measurments and see if I can get a sealed bearing option.

One thing puzzles me though, how do you tension the bearings on a none threaded fork? The old type had a big nut to tension the bearings and keep them located, does this system rely on the spacers and stem to keep the bearings all located and tight?

To tension it loosen the stem bolts then tighten the bolt that goes down the steerer tube. Once it’s at tension tighten the stem bolts.

p90fool

They're not built to last unfortunately, I'm always replacing bearings on our bikes.

My wife cycles thousands of miles a year and I have to go through every moving part every six months on both of her bikes. 

One thing you learn very quickly in the 21st century cycling world is that you're supposed to buy this year's colour every season and if you must actually ride the damn things, don't do it in the rain or frost. 

Teetonetal

Yeah, sadly the quality of oem parts on a lot of bikes is really low , even on bike costing a few thousand.

robgilmo

drofluf said:

robgilmo said:

The races will be shagged if the bearing cage came apart, I have it all stripped out, crown race, cups etc, I will take some measurments and see if I can get a sealed bearing option.

One thing puzzles me though, how do you tension the bearings on a none threaded fork? The old type had a big nut to tension the bearings and keep them located, does this system rely on the spacers and stem to keep the bearings all located and tight?

To tension it loosen the stem bolts then tighten the bolt that goes down the steerer tube. Once it’s at tension tighten the stem bolts.

I thought so, but that stem cap looks so flimsy I really wasnt sure, thats an awful design of such a critical part.

robgilmo

p90fool said:

They're not built to last unfortunately, I'm always replacing bearings on our bikes.

My wife cycles thousands of miles a year and I have to go through every moving part every six months on both of her bikes. 

One thing you learn very quickly in the 21st century cycling world is that you're supposed to buy this year's colour every season and if you must actually ride the damn things, don't do it in the rain or frost. 

p90fool said:

They're not built to last unfortunately, I'm always replacing bearings on our bikes.

My wife cycles thousands of miles a year and I have to go through every moving part every six months on both of her bikes. 

One thing you learn very quickly in the 21st century cycling world is that you're supposed to buy this year's colour every season and if you must actually ride the damn things, don't do it in the rain or frost. 

Its funny you say that, I have a Carrera Vulcan that lives in the garden, my kids bikes take up all the room in the shed so it has to, its cheaper than cheap, but apart from some rusting on the fork tubes I dont really have any issues with it at all, well , apart from it being so flimsy I can actually feel it flex when out on the trails, Oh, and I buckled the back wheel on the Viking Trail once.

robgilmo

Kurtis said:

Just get a new one. I've replaced mine, and pretty much every thing else.
They do go eventually. Looks like quite a new bike though? 

It was second hand last year, I think its a 2020 bike. I cant afford new bikes. It was pretty clean when I bought it though so I dont think it got much use.

euan

robgilmo said:

drofluf said:

robgilmo said:

The races will be shagged if the bearing cage came apart, I have it all stripped out, crown race, cups etc, I will take some measurments and see if I can get a sealed bearing option.

One thing puzzles me though, how do you tension the bearings on a none threaded fork? The old type had a big nut to tension the bearings and keep them located, does this system rely on the spacers and stem to keep the bearings all located and tight?

To tension it loosen the stem bolts then tighten the bolt that goes down the steerer tube. Once it’s at tension tighten the stem bolts.

I thought so, but that stem cap looks so flimsy I really wasnt sure, thats an awful design of such a critical part.

It’s a really elegant system that works really well. The cap that acts as a nut for the bolt isn’t under much tension when preloading the headset. Then when you tighten the stem bolts on the steerer the load is locked. At that point you don’t need the steerer cap and it can be removed if you wanted. 

elstoof

One of the best things to happen to cycling was the release Dia Compe threadless headset 

robgilmo

euan said:

robgilmo said:

drofluf said:

robgilmo said:

The races will be shagged if the bearing cage came apart, I have it all stripped out, crown race, cups etc, I will take some measurments and see if I can get a sealed bearing option.

One thing puzzles me though, how do you tension the bearings on a none threaded fork? The old type had a big nut to tension the bearings and keep them located, does this system rely on the spacers and stem to keep the bearings all located and tight?

To tension it loosen the stem bolts then tighten the bolt that goes down the steerer tube. Once it’s at tension tighten the stem bolts.

I thought so, but that stem cap looks so flimsy I really wasnt sure, thats an awful design of such a critical part.

It’s a really elegant system that works really well. The cap that acts as a nut for the bolt isn’t under much tension when preloading the headset. Then when you tighten the stem bolts on the steerer the load is locked. At that point you don’t need the steerer cap and it can be removed if you wanted. 

It makes sense now,  thank you. 

thermionic

I would contact Cannondale to see if they can tell you the dimensions of the bearings and see if you can find them here:

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Cycling-/-Biking-Bike-Bearings-Caged-Ball-Bearing-Races/c5409_5413_5416/index.html?selection=Head+Race+Ball+Cages

A new Cane Creek or FSA or similar headset with cartridge bearings is not expensive, and any decent bike shop would fit one in minutes.

drofluf

thermionic said:

I would contact Cannondale to see if they can tell you the dimensions of the bearings and see if you can find them here:

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Cycling-/-Biking-Bike-Bearings-Caged-Ball-Bearing-Races/c5409_5413_5416/index.html?selection=Head+Race+Ball+Cages

A new Cane Creek or FSA or similar headset with cartridge bearings is not expensive, and any decent bike shop would fit one in minutes.

Fitting is the quick part; what takes the time is stripping the bike down, removing the old headset and refitting all the parts. My former LBS would fit one to a bare frame for a beer or lend me the press overnight to fit it myself. 

thermionic

Ha, you’re right there… I was thinking of the last time I took a frame to have a headset fitted - it was just a bare frame straight out of the box, and I built the rest up myself.

elstoof

You don’t need to strip a bike down to change a headset*, just drop the fork out

(*unless you’ve made the mistake of getting a modern fully integrated frameset with hydraulics and electrics routed through the steerer tube)

drofluf

thermionic said:

Ha, you’re right there… I was thinking of the last time I took a frame to have a headset fitted - it was just a bare frame straight out of the box, and I built the rest up myself.

I possibly exaggerated a little, depending on hose/cable lengths though you may need to remove the front brake. There's not enough slack on mine to drop the fork otherwise

robgilmo

drofluf said:

thermionic said:

Ha, you’re right there… I was thinking of the last time I took a frame to have a headset fitted - it was just a bare frame straight out of the box, and I built the rest up myself.

I possibly exaggerated a little, depending on hose/cable lengths though you may need to remove the front brake. There's not enough slack on mine to drop the fork otherwise

Two set screws took the calliper off, it all came apart easy enough.

I just had the new bits delivered today so should have it all together by the week end, spanners are on the car at the moment though, Impending MOT so new exhaust, steering box, hand brake rebuild, rear prop UJ, front hub rebuild, and thats the bits I know about, Oh, wiring issues too! Its going to be a busy Easter break!