Hot pickups unnecessary?

nacnudnai

Ignoring any potential quibbling about resistances, what "hot" means, etc., I'm of the view that hot and cool pickups have their place - and no amount of amp or pedal tweaking will allow one to do "exactly" what the other does. This isn't only to do with "tone", but also how everything "feels".

A PAF-alike into a high gain amp will not sound/react the same as a 22k ceramic magnet humbucker - and that is to be embraced. It doesn't mean one is "unnecessary"

ICBM said it above, and I agree - output snobbery is a thing. Without tying this particular opinion to anyone above, I hear quite a lot that a low output pickup does everything a high output pickup does as long as you just use boosters, tweak amps etc. This tells you two things: 1) clearly the low output pickup isn't doing what the high output pickups does, as you wouldn't need to add on boosters; and 2) you're potentially missing out on loads of very fine high output pickups for no real reason.

I have recently been going on a bit of a high output binge (including recently acquiring some Seymour Duncan Slugs), and I am enjoying it just as much as diving into the PAF-alike world. Each has their place and one isn't better than the other.

OilCityPickups

nacnudnai said:

Ignoring any potential quibbling about resistances, what "hot" means, etc., I'm of the view that hot and cool pickups have their place - and no amount of amp or pedal tweaking will allow one to do "exactly" what the other does. This isn't only to do with "tone", but also how everything "feels".

A PAF-alike into a high gain amp will not sound/react the same as a 22k ceramic magnet humbucker - and that is to be embraced. It doesn't mean one is "unnecessary"

ICBM said it above, and I agree - output snobbery is a thing. Without tying this particular opinion to anyone above, I hear quite a lot that a low output pickup does everything a high output pickup does as long as you just use boosters, tweak amps etc. This tells you two things: 1) clearly the low output pickup isn't doing what the high output pickups does, as you wouldn't need to add on boosters; and 2) you're potentially missing out on loads of very fine high output pickups for no real reason.

I have recently been going on a bit of a high output binge (including recently acquiring some Seymour Duncan Slugs), and I am enjoying it just as much as diving into the PAF-alike world. Each has their place and one isn't better than the other.

Hooray ... sense ...  

Grumpyrocker

I'm generally not very fussed about pickups. I've got guitars with PAFs and some with EMGs and I adjust my pedals and amps accordingly.

In the past I did get into pickup swapping. But these days can't be bothered. I'll work with whatever the guitar comes with.

I'm not suggesting they will sound the same. But in the ballpark will do for me.

Lebarque

I'm aware that resistance figures don't tell the full story when considering output but what else have us buyers got to go on?

Most pickup manufacturers publish resistance figures and say e.g. an 8.5k pickup is 'hotter' than a 7.5k pickup.

*Raises despairing hands*

Lodious

I recently bought a Hamer Newport Pro with Duncan Custombuckers. Compared to Gibson pickups, they have way, way less top end.

They feel like a bit of a guilty pleasure but I'm actually really enjoying playing them. They are different, but they definitely have their place. It's nice to have different options.

For the last 20 years 'low wind' pickups have become the virtually ubiquitous aftermarket choice (outside of metal), but there have been some awesome tones recorded with higher output pickups in lots of different genres.  

OilCityPickups

Lebarque said:

I'm aware that resistance figures don't tell the full story when considering output but what else have us buyers got to go on?

Most pickup manufacturers publish resistance figures and say e.g. an 8.5k pickup is 'hotter' than a 7.5k pickup.

*Raises despairing hands*

I been shouting in the wilderness for the last thirteen years ... DC resistance figures are very much in small print on my own site ... indeed if I bother to put them at all. So much of this is crap my industry puts out ... along with 'magic wire' and blessed 'Leesona machines' ... the pickup making sector is drowning in it's own snake-oil. I've seen videos of people stroking magnets to 'even out the fields', people claiming magic properties of febrenachi sequences in winding layer counts, all sorts of egregious hog effluent ... people claiming that the turning marks on top of PAF slugs improve the sound ... and folks claiming that wedge shaped coils sound better than even ones ... bullshit all of it. 
The fact is that it's magnets and wire at the end of the day ... and there is no magic, just science. 
And DC resistance is just something the industry seized on as a selling point ... round about the time Larry DiMarzio invented the mass replacement pickup market.  

Kurtis

OilCityPickups said:

GuyBoden said:

Could a hot pickup be used at lower volume, just by turning the guitar's volume control down?

I'm wondering, if anyone has ever turned down the volume control on a guitar.

I've noticed that there is a tone control on a guitar too.

Exactly!!!! 

Exactly what? 

OilCityPickups

Kurtis said:

OilCityPickups said:

GuyBoden said:

Could a hot pickup be used at lower volume, just by turning the guitar's volume control down?

I'm wondering, if anyone has ever turned down the volume control on a guitar.

I've noticed that there is a tone control on a guitar too.

Exactly!!!! 

Exactly what? 

Exactly as in -  that that an awful lot of guitarists totally ignore the tap that turns up or down their pickup's power. They'll fit coil taps and boost pedals, buy multi channel amps and moan about hot pickups - but totally forget the simple variable resistor right next to their hand. 
Oh, and they'll spend out on noise gates to quieten P90s when a flick of the wrist when they aren't playing gives silence. :-) 

TTBZ

Depends on the guitar for me. I've found with my SG I like something mid output like the 498T which seems to fill out the inherent "thinness" of the bridge position in that guitar. Lower output sounds weak and higher output too compressed and flat/quiet when switching to the bridge from the neck. Then again with P90s it's kind of the opposite where lower output ends up sounding bigger as there's less compression going on. 

In LPs I like "vintage hot" whatever that means. Bare Knuckle Black Dog was my favourite in my old LP. Borrowed a few teles from a mate a while ago and despite playing heavy stuff I didn't enjoy the hotter pickups (BK Piledriver) in one of them, felt too dark/dull and masked the character of a tele.

Slartibartfarst42

I use a Super Distortion in one guitar, because that's the sound I want in that particular guitar. Another has a Gibson 498T/490R set, largely because that's what I had lying around. The third guitar uses ProBuckers, which are better than I expected. The only limitation with the ProBuckers is that they tend not to take gain as well, but that has more to do with the alnico 2 magnets than the power. Switch to an alnico 4 or 5 and they'd be fine. They have the best tone and they're the most versatile. If I needed more pickups, I'd be looking at PAF pickups instead of hot options.

hotpickups

How rude lol 

ThorpyFX

hotpickups said:

How rude lol 

you are unnecessary david!!! not really of course

Neilybob

OilCityPickups said:

Kurtis said:

OilCityPickups said:

GuyBoden said:

Could a hot pickup be used at lower volume, just by turning the guitar's volume control down?

I'm wondering, if anyone has ever turned down the volume control on a guitar.

I've noticed that there is a tone control on a guitar too.

Exactly!!!! 

Exactly what? 

Exactly as in -  that that an awful lot of guitarists totally ignore the tap that turns up or down their pickup's power. They'll fit coil taps and boost pedals, buy multi channel amps and moan about hot pickups - but totally forget the simple variable resistor right next to their hand. 
Oh, and they'll spend out on noise gates to quieten P90s when a flick of the wrist when they aren't playing gives silence. :-) 

This is why I think everyone should have owned and played a single pickup guitar. I learnt so much about the effect of riding the volume and tone pots on my SG junior. 

skullfunkerry

Ola Englund agrees with this; the pickups that come in Solar Guitars are quite low output I believe.

I tend to prefer the hotter stuff; my favourite passive pickup in 30-odd years of playing is the Djenerator, from @OilCityPickups - it's absolutely beastly, but without sacrificing clarity or tone. I absolutely love it.

fretmeister

The only really hot pickups I have liked are EMG 81.

My favourite is still the SD Pearly Gates, but others with a flatter EQ curve but with a similar output are perfectly fine for me too.

The Thornbucker + is a nice pickup.

Actually I just thought of quite a hot one I liked - the Lawrence XL that was in the original lower priced Washburn N2 Nuno guitars. That was great - loads of squealies available!

There's only been a few pickups I really didn't like. BK Crawlers / Miracle Man and something else I can't remember that I hated.

Whatever the stock cheap ones in my LTD EC256 are actually very nice. I'd call them mid output, quite balanced in tone.

I currently have some Mick Thompson Signature Seymour Duncans in my RG7 and I must admit they are not doing it for me at all. I think they are basically taking the EMG81 that he used to use and then adding 300 of everything to it and as a result it's far too hot but it also loses the top / high mid cut that the 81 had.

I will be making that guitar passive as soon as I have some money available. 7 string pickups are not cheap and they don't come up used very often. I think I want to put SD Customs at the bridge, not decided on the neck yet.

_______________

Not got as much experience for single coils.

I have Lollars in my strat at the moment and they are lovely.
Also got a Twang Banger for a faux tele sound that I am impressed with. That will now be going into a new 2 pickup 'plate when I get round to wiring it up.

I liked Kinmans, didn't like the Dimarzio Area stuff. Their HS-3 / Yngwie pickups were excellent for high gain but pants for cleans.