Capo causing tunage problems

marktheharp

Hi everyone, I have a faith all mahogany naked Venus 6 string. And both my schubb capo and a kyser capo cause the low E string to go slightly flat out of ture. It’s fine when capo is placed on 1st or 2nd Fret but any higher the low E sounds terrible. The rest of the strings sound fine. The guitar is in tune with no fret buzz anywhere on the neck without capo and harmonics at the 12th fret are in tune. So as far as I know is intonanated correctly. Has gauge 11-52 Martin sp strings fitted and have had 11s on since I bought it….any advice much appreciated. Thanks in advance.  
cheers Mark.

victorludorum

It sounds normal to me. I retune a little every time I use a capo, wherever it's placed on the neck.

MartinBush

There was a video on another thread on here a while back showing someone pressing the strings behind the nut or lifting them closer to the bridge to deal with any tuning issues.

It looked like a bit of a faff to me at the time, but guess what I do now...

ICBM

The harmonics at the 12th fret will always be in tune. Are the fretted notes? (Low E especially, obviously.)

strtdv

Either the capo is set to put excessive pressure on the string (essentially bending it sharp) or your guitar has intonation issues which the capo is just making clearer

PCT57

Don't worry about it. In my experience it's quite normal to have to tweak the tuning slightly when you place a capo on the neck.

ElectricXII

This sometimes works for me - after you've fitted the capo, push all the strings down over the soundhole with the flat of your hand and release. I don't know why, but it often settles the tuning.

sev112

You can put your strings out of tune when you put your capo on - one should try and out the capo on by hand pressure equally op across all strings (usually top E and Low E) and then bring the underside up to the neck from below.  this helps not bending/ forcing the strings out of line and tune.
Tommy Emmanual also says to press down on your strings a couple of times after they’ve been capod and that usually means they become/ stay in tune.  It does seem to work well


but I can’t today work out how a capo flattens a tone rather than sharpening it ?

Soupman

I use a shubb capo without problems - perhaps try loosening the tension screw a little?
Mine doesn't need a massive amount of tension, just enough to stay in tune.

DavidR

I did a review of G7 capo a while back which may or may not help. G7 have a different mechanism but I don't really know if that would help your intonation issues. In my experience all capos can put you out of tune to some extent.

Are G7 Capos better or just different? - Guitar Discussions on theFretBoard

marktheharp

My mistake the low E might be sharp rather than flat but it sounds bloody awful. I will have a go with everyone’s top tips tomorrow when I get home . Thanks everyone 

marktheharp

Had a go with flattening the strings with palm of hand over soundhole and sounds certainly better than it did . Thanks everyone. Nice simple trick..

Tannin

The closer the capo is to the fret, the better it works. Try putting it just barely behind the fret, almost on top of it. 

(I seldom use capos, but never need to retune. I'm using a cheap D'Addario screw capo.)

ICBM

marktheharp said:

My mistake the low E might be sharp rather than flat

Ah, that’s much more understandable .

Tannin said:

The closer the capo is to the fret, the better it works. Try putting it just barely behind the fret, almost on top of it.

This, especially with the Kyser - it’s the best position since it doesn't allow the strings to be bent down (and thus sharp) by the capo. The Shubb might need to be further away since it needs a bit of ‘give’ to lock (which is one reason I don’t like them).

BillDL

I don't use a capo much, but I've found that with most of them I get the best results if I place it close to the fret on the treble side and angle it so that it is a little further back from the fret on the bass side.

marktheharp

Thanks everyone great advice, much appreciated 

bluecat

Maybe if the action is slightly higher on the low E ( hardly visible ) this could be causing the issue.
Just a thought, never leave any stone unturned.

bluecat

If the action on the low E is higher when tuned, it will go slightly sharp when the capo is used. Maybe a very slight adjustment on the nut will solve this?

BigPaulie

I presume that when your open low e string is fretted normally, each fret is in tune (check it with a chromatic tuner)?

If it isn't there's a problem with your guitar's intonation.

If it's in tune all the way up to 12th fret the tuning problems you're experiencing with your capos are because they're pulling your low e sharp (I'm right in thinking we've confirmed it's sharp, and not flat as in the OP?)

This is most likely down to the technique you're using to apply the capo and/or too much tension in the capo. The fact that the problem is exacerbated the farther up the neck you put the capo where the neck presumably gets thicker would partially explain this.

It could also be a mismatch between the radius of your fingerboard and that of your capos. A capo designed for a curved board will put greater force on the outer strings when placed on a flat board.

As Tannin/ICBM said above Kysers need to be applied right behind the fret crown, almost on top of the fret. My Kyser also had too much tension from the factory and was pulling strings sharp. I bent the piece that goes behind the neck ever so slightly and reversed the clear rubber sleeve so the thinner side was against the back of the neck and now it plays really nicely.

With the Shubb, do you adjust the tension screw depending where you're placing the capo? You'll need to loosen it slightly the farther up the neck you go to take account of the increased neck thickness.

Finally, I find it helps to be careful when placing the capo:

With your Kyser held open with your fretting hand place the pad across the strings and use your picking hand to press down on top of the bar that goes across the strings with just sufficient force to fret each string with equal pressure. Make sure the bar is perfectly parallel with the fret and that it is as close to the back of the fret as possible. Now hold it there with all the strings held lightly against the fret and slowly release the spring handle to allow the rear pad to rest on the back of the neck. Carefully does it.

With your Shubb open place the pad across the strings and use your picking hand to press down on top of the bar that goes across the strings with just sufficient force to fret each string with equal pressure. Make sure the bar is perfectly parallel with the fret and that it is fairly close to the back of the fret: 5-10mm. Now hold it there with all the strings held lightly against the fret and slowly close the handle to allow the rear pad to grab the back of the neck. The screw should be tightened only enough to provide sufficient force for the strings to fret cleanly without buzzing. If you can loosen the screw and still have the strings play without buzzing you should. Carefully does it.

Jfingers

I play acoustic with a capo (Shubb) in various neck positions and have done for decades.

I agree that a slight tweak may be essential from time to time.

This is the special place where chat/banter happens with your given audience, don't stress about what a digital device is telling you, rely on your ears. Thank me later (unless you're in a high end studio...)

BigPaulie

Jfingers said:

I play acoustic with a capo (Shubb) in various neck positions and have done for decades.

I agree that a slight tweak may be essential from time to time.

This is the special place where chat/banter happens with your given audience, don't stress about what a digital device is telling you, rely on your ears. Thank me later (unless you're in a high end studio...)

Not sure I agree with that. 

Tuners are so cheap and reliable these days there's no excuse to not use them. 

Life is too short for playing out of tune. YouTube is full of videos ruined by the player not taking the 30 seconds to tune their guitar before hitting "record". Presumably they've "trusted their ears"and they think they're in tune but to anyone else, who isn't tone-deaf, watching the video it stands out like a sore thumb, or sore ear.

Your ear may be good enough to be "trusted"without the use of a tuner. We're not all that lucky.